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BLueSS
January 27, 2007, 01:10:04 AM - ORIGINAL POST -


« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 08:55:28 PM by BLueSS »
 
mvco
Read May 14, 2011, 05:52:10 AM #1976

@ Chris, I still have not been up there!  But as you can tell, the tech's have.  Crap, I suppose you will give me a rep negative vote now.
 
AlphaConqerer
Read May 16, 2011, 08:54:47 PM #1977

Nah, I have no problem paying $1 for 3 songs, 3 songs=1 bonus song.  As long as you keep the machine in good working order, it's worth it.
-Chris
 
mvco
Read May 22, 2011, 05:37:06 AM #1978

Hey everyone,

I would like to gather some opinions.  After seeing that we will never recoup on the Street Fighter 4 updates that went in a few weeks ago, of course we are gunshy on what should be next for a new Acme game.
Was considering DJ Max, but when GW got one, I figured that would be enough to serve whatever interest the area could have.  Still not seeing much else in the way of encouraging new games, and wondering if people would play Teknika to death?
Opinions and speculation welcome
 
sfxazure
Read May 22, 2011, 07:17:51 AM #1979

Hey everyone,

I would like to gather some opinions.  After seeing that we will never recoup on the Street Fighter 4 updates that went in a few weeks ago, of course we are gunshy on what should be next for a new Acme game.
Was considering DJ Max, but when GW got one, I figured that would be enough to serve whatever interest the area could have.  Still not seeing much else in the way of encouraging new games, and wondering if people would play Teknika to death?
Opinions and speculation welcome

I haven't gone to play technika 2 at gameworks in weeks since the machine is always ridiculously crowded.  I'd have to wait ~30 minutes to play once.  I'd say there are enough players to justify two machines.
 
CongoBongo
Read May 22, 2011, 07:59:38 AM #1980

Technika 2 is a lot of fun but there are a few problems I see with it being set up at ACME.   First of all is the fact that while there a few hardcore players that would play it a lot (like at gameworks),  it's audience would be limited - it's not the type of game that would attract casual players.   The times I've been at Gameworks - the machine is either crowded by the same group of players that are always there, or completely empty with regular arcade goers simply walking past it.    So basically getting return on investment on this machine will pretty much depend on how much play  it gets from the relatively small group of players.

The other issue I would see is the maintenance of the touch-screen.   The crowd in the ACME arcade can get pretty "ghetto" on certain days/hours, and a lot of the people there don't exactly care about treating other people's property in a respectful manner.   That touch screen would probably take quite a beating from random fools who aren't even playing the game.
 
mvco
Read May 22, 2011, 11:29:43 AM #1981

Good points, thanks people!  I was wondering if the casual customers would take interest, and it sounds like it's a miss with that group.  Keep the opinions coming.  We want to provide this, but it's a scary proposition with it's viabilty.
 
BLueSS
Read May 22, 2011, 03:00:06 PM #1982

I think the reason that Technika 2 is doing so good at Gameworks is because there is a very active community that plays all the time there. Without that, I don't think the machine would be doing well. A lot of that community seems to visit GW often, and some of them do visit Acme on Thursdays for ITG (a bunch of them are ITG players).

I think if a second location opened, it'd split up the potential community and cause less of them to meet, and people would become less active. I don't think that Acme could make a Technika work. The most active players of Technika are people who aren't members of the forums here.
 
Laura
Read May 22, 2011, 04:54:52 PM #1983

Hey Bill, have you thought about Jubeat?  I don't know the costs involved, but that would be a game that nobody has here and that lots of people would like to play.  I don't know how it would do with casuals, but the big buttons would probably at least draw interest from people who want to know what it is!
 
KevinDDR
Read May 22, 2011, 07:05:53 PM #1984

Maximum Tune 4 when it comes out would be great, but I'm sure you've already heard that. While I would like to see Technika 2 (as it's incredibly crowded at GW), I do sort of agree that maintenance could be a little bit of a pain at Acme. A Drummania upgrade seems unlikely to pay itself off (although the new hardware is more reliable than the V3 hardware, and the kits for V4-V7 are starting to fall in price in addition to being fully unlockable without e-amuse), and IIDX has already proven itself to not work. Jubeat is incredibly crippled when run without E-Amuse, so I don't feel that that's worth the cost of importing a machine. Have you thought about getting DDR X2? The brand new cabinet at Gameworks is already unplayable on both sides, and the game is much better when run as an upgrade on the older cabinets. I don't know if it's possible to get a Japanese upgrade kit, so I'm just throwing that out there. Maybe I'll think of something else later too.

Ultimately, I think the reason why Gameworks is getting a lot of music game traffic lately is simply that they have everything in one place. Their Pop'n cabinet sucks, but it's at least there and people like that. Their GFDM cabinets are super outdated and only in decent condition, but they're still convenient and playable while waiting in line for Technika 2. I know non profitable games take up space that could be better used, but that does seem to be one of the issues at Acme now...if you're waiting for ITG, there's just not a whole lot of other things to do. It's nice to have a little variety. Does anyone play Pop'n at Narrows at all? I don't have any evidence to back my thoughts up, but I would imagine that it would do better at an arcade that Bemani players are coming to anyway, like Acme.
 
Gorrum
Read May 22, 2011, 07:23:51 PM #1985

I would kill for X2 at Acme. It really is a downer when the dedicab pads are still absolute shit even though X2 is by far my favorite DDR game. I would think Japanese cabs will show up on ebay/yahoo/random auction website when the next one is out.
 
Laura
Read May 22, 2011, 07:54:43 PM #1986

I actually kinda agree with Kevin about variety, although it sucks because I know that there's not much you can do about that if the games aren't earning enough at ACME.  When I do go to Gameworks, it's less to play one thing and more because there are lots of things I kind of like, though: Taiko, Pop'n, Technika 2, X2 (when it was working) all in one place is a big draw for me simply because they're all there.

I hadn't thought about the unlock system with regard to Jubeat; that's a good point. 

I would love to see Pop'n back at ACME, but I'm sure there's a reason it left in the first place, so yeah.

Maybe you could move the Narrows DanceManiax out that way and see how it does?  I always gave that game a go or two whenever I was at Narrows.
 
mvco
Read May 23, 2011, 04:40:23 AM #1987

Wish we still had a DMX.  They have been gone awhile now.  Pop N, it left due to low revenue.  Doing a bit better at Narrows, but not much.  No matter where it is, it is only loved by a handful of people.
Wish we could find X2 to install in an original cabinet with workable pads!
 
ancsik
Read May 23, 2011, 10:26:48 AM #1988

I think one important factor to consider in terms of what to put at Acme is that the current ITG crowd is, for the most part, an ITG-exclusive crowd and I don't see too much interest toward other music games coming from the newer players.

For example, DM gets occasional play from a couple of the newer players, but after that, it's played by those of us who have played it for years and the occasional casual player.  With Davyn and Mykl gone and KDDR, Keby, and the other people who used to play set after set not going as often and very little interest to replace the lost play time, DM is sitting there unplayed more often then not, even on the busiest night.  DM (followed by Pop'n) always seemed most likely to draw enough interest to get new regular players, so I'd be inclined to say that, sadly, no other music game is really going to have enough draw to keep it afloat at Acme.

Also, Technika being the exception, GW's crowds are casual players looking to sample everything and Acme's crowds are players dedicated to one or two games only.  A very interesting looking niche game can survive at GW because there will always be a few dozen new people per day who think it looks kind of cool and will try it once or twice.  This also lets them get away with subpar maintenance - only expert players will notice (or care that much about) the machine giving errors, and pleasing those few expert players represents very little revenue against the cost of proper maintenance given how quickly a machine will degrade when played constantly by GW-sized crowds of players.

GW having everything was always a bit of a draw, but I haven't played any Taiko in my last half dozen visits because the line is 6+ sets long (entirely casual players, I don't think Taiko would do that well at Acme), I avoid DM because Acme has V3 and the GW machine isn't in the greatest condition, I avoid Pop'n because there's usually one dead or impossibly sticky button, I avoid Technika because of the line, and ultimately, I wind up playing a few sets of X2 before getting bored and leaving (I'd play some Extreme, but it's in terrible condition more often than not) - X2 is fun, but I get bored playing only one game over and over.
 
Gerrak
Read May 24, 2011, 10:22:10 AM #1989

BILL!! HELP!!

The ITG machine is under a heat lamp....


No seriously, I keep having to turn the lights out in the arcade because the light above does generate heat and causes tremendous glare on the screen. So far 100% of the over 20 people I've asked (ITG and non-ITG players) have actually preferred the lights being out in the arcade, and most arcades seem to have the lights out anyway, and their main area is darker on Friday/Saturday nights than the arcade with the lights out, so it kind of makes sense on many accounts for them to just keep it off...

However somehow these guys won't get the hint from their customers and keep turning it back on dispite turning them off repeatedly for weeks, and I don't want to go ask the owner myself because if he says 'no you can't turn the lights off' then I don't have the ability to plead ignorance if they actually call me out on it. I'm hoping you might have a word with the owner on the matter if it's not too much trouble. It seems like a dumb problem but a definitely noticable one after being made to move the ITG machine to its current location.

Anyway thanks Bill!

I also called this in already but the left coin slots currently busted. The right one works just fine, just thought you should give it a look Smiley
 
Laura
Read May 24, 2011, 10:32:41 AM #1990

I can actually see keeping the lights off as being a good idea over the summer in particular since, IIRC, ACME doesn't have air conditioning.  Smiley

I got a couple of random misses on the left side of the ITG machine yesterday, but I am also one of the lighter players (god I love being able to say that) and tend not to stomp very hard, so if a sensor isn't weak enough for others to notice, I still might.  Anyone better and/or heavier than me wanna check the left side out and tell me if I'm crazy? :O
 
Keby
Read May 24, 2011, 10:40:04 AM #1991

I can actually see keeping the lights off as being a good idea over the summer in particular since, IIRC, ACME doesn't have air conditioning.  Smiley

I got a couple of random misses on the left side of the ITG machine yesterday, but I am also one of the lighter players (god I love being able to say that) and tend not to stomp very hard, so if a sensor isn't weak enough for others to notice, I still might.  Anyone better and/or heavier than me wanna check the left side out and tell me if I'm crazy? :O

You're right. When we were there with catherine and tony, I played Macarena and got like 10 way offs and a couple misses(two of those were me)

And then I played Try to Star and noticed it even more. I would check it to be safe.
 
ancsik
Read May 24, 2011, 11:55:32 AM #1992

IIRC, Acme does have AC running to the arcade, but not quite enough to win against all those machines plus ambient summer heat - ITG being in the front always gave it enough circulation to mitigate the problem, but the back of the arcade can get hot.

I'd definitely advocate cutting down the amount of light in there if the lamps are actually generating heat, since it's only going to get hotter as we move into the summer.  I don't know how hot ITG's four marquee-mounted lights get, but it might be a good idea to disconnect them too - if don't know how much heat they generate, but they can be a bit of an annoyance as is and a lot of players just cover them with towels or coats, so if we're turning off some of the ambient (overhead) lighting, those will be that much brighter when they hit a player's eyes.
 
Laura
Read May 24, 2011, 01:22:14 PM #1993

WAIT WAIT WAIT - can this be done?!  This would be a godsend!  I am not a fan of being blinded by the light... Tongue
 
Suko
Read May 24, 2011, 01:43:09 PM #1994

I swear to God, I think I'm the only one int he entire world who LIKES the marquee lights. I put filters in mine, so it diffuses the light instead of blinding you directly.

On the topic of heat lamps; God yes, switch those bastards out with CFLs. When I did go, I usually played Max 2 and that thing was RIGHT under a 120W spot light. That crap should be outside, not inside!
 
mvco
Read May 24, 2011, 02:13:30 PM #1995

Hey!
Is it the player one side, left pad I presume?  Allan, thanks for calling in the coin slot.  The call is down as a low priority, so the next trip through the area will see a service visit.  When you guys call in a game that is totally down, the priority response time is usually 2-3 hours.
About the lighting, sure, I can see where that would be annoying.  I will talk with the proper people about it, and for now, maybe just keep flipping the lights off when it's ITG time, and flip them back on when you head out.  If Acme needs the lighting for security reasons, my next idea would be to just remove the lamp over the ITG game. 

Regarding the input for the DJ Max game, I soooo appreciate all your good observations! 
Now another idea is stirring, and need the opinion of air hockey players.  (Laura?)  Anyhow, see if you can find a photo of the new Barron Games line of quad 4 player air hockey tables.  Looks cool to this old man, but that is the problem, the old man is not the one we need to attract the attention of, haha. 
 
ancsik
Read May 24, 2011, 06:07:14 PM #1996

Is this the quad table (or at least close enough to the one in question)? http://www.gametablesusa.com/catalog/barron-games-quad-air-redemption-air-hockey-table-1/

The quad table looks interesting to say the least, and the one in the link does close unused goals, so it works fine as a 2-3 player table (my initial concern when I saw it was that you might always have to have 4 players).  It definitely could be fun to play, but given the difficulty of getting more than a couple air hockey players together at once, I think the gimmick could lose its charm pretty quickly, so it would really depend on a drawing casual players, so putting it out in the open would be key, if that would even be enough to support it.

On the practical side, my first concern would be that a normal 2 player table is not a square, so it'd be strange for 2 players.  Secondly, it would be really awkward to set up at Acme; the footprint (a seven and a half foot square) is almost as big as the footprint of a DDR machine, and then you'd then need to have a few feet of clearance around all four sides to actually fit four players - it would pretty much require a 12 foot square to be reserved just for this one table, and given that the Acme arcade is between 16 and 20 feet wide, it's going to make it tough to have any game sitting opposite the table without blocking the pathway.  Per my earlier comment, it'd probably need to be placed up front, which is the narrower part of the arcade, so it could definitely choke the arcade entryway.

Basically, it's a really cool concept, but I don't necessarily think it can even reasonably fit at Acme (unless Acme suddenly let you put a game out by the pool tables and bar - there's a huge open space there, but I'm doubting that), and even then, I don't think it'll necessarily get any more play than a normal table - I'd at least give it a try, but it definitely isn't likely to get me to play more than I do now (and if it's bad for 2 player games, then I'd probably play less than I do now).
 
mvco
Read May 24, 2011, 06:22:26 PM #1997

Yes, that is the air hockey table.  Feedback encouraged.  Looks pretty cool, but very different concept in game play due to the four goals.
 
mvco
Read May 25, 2011, 04:52:32 AM #1998

It would have to go where the present hockey table is.  I need to break out the measuring tape next time I am there, I also thought it could be a squeeze getting one in there. 
 
Suko
Read May 25, 2011, 07:47:34 AM #1999

So, it's air hockey meets Hungry Hungry Hippos?

How is this game played with <4 people? Does it block off the vacant player's goals? If not, I imagine a game with less than 4 people would be more frustrating than fun.

The 2player air hockey game has been popular for decades simply because it works. Trying to improve the format is great, but some things are nearly impossible to improve upon.
 
ancsik
Read May 25, 2011, 08:58:29 AM #2000

According to the description, each side has it's own coin mech and the game starts by opening the appropriate goals once two players have payed.  People can join in at any time by paying to open their goal.

I agree with the "nearly impossible to improve on" idea. One of the big things to factor in a potential improvement on a proven idea is backwards compatibility; the square table and side goals (even with the goal doors, there's now a potentially inconsistent surface on the sides of the table) will throw off the classic two player mechanics, meaning the table is a risky purchase if it must replace a classic table.  If they came up with new ideas to implement on a standard table, which the players could opt to disable, then there's little risk of disrupting the proven game, and the new features could attract new interest, whereas a design which likely disrupts the proven game will only work out if the new idea is a good one, and that's a very costly risk to take.
 
 
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