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BLueSS
January 27, 2007, 02:10:04 AM - ORIGINAL POST -


« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 09:55:28 PM by BLueSS »
 
Suko
Read April 29, 2011, 03:12:47 PM #1926

Perhaps I'm missing something, but can someone tell me why we can't add some mods to the default ITG2 theme and call it a day?  Does that one have performance problems as well?
You can. Or, at least, I can on mine.

I used this tutorial to get me started:
http://www.boxorroxors.net/tutorials.php?mode=view&t=1829
 
BLueSS
Read April 29, 2011, 03:24:56 PM #1927

BlueSS CALM DOWN I KNOW YOURE THE ADMIN YOU DONT HAVE TO PLAY MOMMY WITH THE FORUMS KTHX
No.

You have a self-righteous attitude on the forums where you think everyone needs to respect you and your dedication to the Acme machine, when most of your posts have been rude, annoying, and insulting to other members of the community.

You may have respect as a skillful player, but that's it. I have lost almost all respect for your attitude and personality online, and that's really hard to do. Zeppy never even hit that.

You're not in charge of anything here, and I can very well do as I please on this site. As the majority of the members here know, I have done nothing but busted my butt to keep this site and community alive. You have been nothing more than a plague that seems to throw out your opinions whenever something doesn't go your way.

Your stupid freak out about the pink theme shows you aren't here to rationally solve problems, but you're here to scream and yell until you get you way.

I'm tired of it, so knock it off.
 
sfxazure
Read April 29, 2011, 04:20:16 PM #1928


« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 04:22:22 PM by sfxazure »
 
Happy Redneck
Read April 29, 2011, 06:43:20 PM #1929




Anyways I think the ITG2 Ultimate Edition theme looks really cool and hopefully other people will think the same:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5EBWZ7H2
ITG2 -Ultimate Edition Theme- (screen good ending and other)

« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 06:45:04 PM by Black Gallagher »
 
Dr.Z
Read April 30, 2011, 03:36:30 AM #1930

Hmm. So early z__z

Planning to go to Acme tonight (Saturday).. hopefully. I'm very intrigued to check out this Empress Theme
 
Gerrak
Read April 30, 2011, 09:30:56 AM #1931

Quote
Chromatic looks cool, but would anyone be willing to donate some RAM along with it?  Even in that video, the song wheel lags a lot.
I already volunteered to donate money for hardware upgrades for the machine. Tell me what you specifically need and I'll look into getting it or reimburse you for it (within reason).

Quote
My suspicion is that if the song has an ogg length patch applied to it, openITG tries to foil this "hack" by checking the song length itself to determine if it is a long song or not. So, I believe this is what causes the majority of these song wheel lags.

If it's doing this on ITG1/2 songs in the song wheel, than I have no flippin' idea and ignore everything I just said.
The song wheel will lag on ITG: Rebirth (And ITG3 I think) which has no long songs, however you're correct that it never lags on ITG 1/2.
 
mvco
Read April 30, 2011, 11:20:09 AM #1932

Whomever picks up mor RAM, drop me your email address if you have a paypal account and we will cover it!
 
AlphaConqerer
Read April 30, 2011, 11:36:15 AM #1933

Yo Bill,
Not certain if you saw my message as the ITG3 theme discussion has been heated, but the DMV3 at ACME was set to $1.00 for 3 songs (bonus still 3 songs) when I was there on Wednesday.  Do you intend to set it back to $0.75 for 4 songs (bonus=3)?  Also, the monitor on the DMV3 is losing coloration on left side.

Anyhow if you already addressed this please disregard, it is possible I missed your response as well.
-Chris
 
mvco
Read April 30, 2011, 04:56:39 PM #1934

Hey Chris,
I will note this, and make changes when I get back up that way.  But might be  a week until I get by there again.  thx for the heads up.  Hope the monitor is not going out!
 
ancsik
Read April 30, 2011, 11:52:30 PM #1935

The DM monitor looks more like it could use a good degaussing than anything - one side's going pink, which has the side effect of making it really hard to see details.

Chromatic and ITG2 Ultimate are now installed on the machine.  We've switched over to Chromatic, which, so far, is a very nice theme with absolutely no lag on the song wheel and better automatic handling of custom speed mods (it sorts the official, hacked, and custom ones automatically and doesn't round to the nearest 0.1x).  Also, Chromatic supports rate modifiers, so 1.1 - 2.0x music speed is now available to everyone.

There's one slight issue with Chromatic that I'm going to tweak - the step judgments do not flash, so a long run of fantastics has almost no onscreen indicator that you're hitting notes.  In the next couple days I'll modify the theme to have a very slight flash and then load the change onto the machine as soon as I can.
 
NSX
Read May 01, 2011, 01:07:24 PM #1936

There's one slight issue with Chromatic that I'm going to tweak - the step judgments do not flash, so a long run of fantastics has almost no onscreen indicator that you're hitting notes.  In the next couple days I'll modify the theme to have a very slight flash and then load the change onto the machine as soon as I can.

After playing 1 set on the Chromatic theme, I wouldn't mind keeping it the way it is. I was actually doing better when step judgments don't flash - I have more concentration and less likely to get a seizure looking at the flashing Fantastics/Excellents because that's where I mainly look. I got 5 excellents on Koko Soko and was blue comboing it half-way through the song.

Anyways, this is my input on things, and I guess it doesn't matter to me if this changes or not. I absolutely love this theme!!!  Kiss
 
KevinDDR
Read May 01, 2011, 02:39:12 PM #1937

Keep in mind that the Chromatic theme probably fixed the timing windows as well. I haven't looked at the theme metrics, but I believe it's one of the ones that has the correct windows.
 
NSX
Read May 01, 2011, 03:02:14 PM #1938

You might be right about that... I did have my suspicions to why the timing was so much easier. While I was playing Koko Soko, I kept thinking to myself "I should be getting excellents right about now" and I never did until I really got off beat lol. Nevertheless, if that's the case, I'm fine with it.
 
neempoppa
Read May 01, 2011, 10:03:38 PM #1939

can't wait to check it out.

What kind of ram does it use? DDR1/2/3? or even SD/RD? how much are we planning to add? and if available, do we know what kind of motherboard is in it? (to gauge how much ram can be added and what kind)
 
Gerrak
Read May 02, 2011, 10:59:24 AM #1940

Mmm timing windows fixed? Maybe get a few more quads finally? Smiley I'm pretty neutral toward the flashing timing but Chromatic overall looks pimp! Thanks Tony!
 
ancsik
Read May 02, 2011, 11:46:53 AM #1941

Keep in mind that the Chromatic theme probably fixed the timing windows as well. I haven't looked at the theme metrics, but I believe it's one of the ones that has the correct windows.

Most themes I've looked at have the disputedly "correct" (I can't really comment on it, since I'm not that familiar with the debate) Preferences-cabinet:JudgeWindowAdd=0.0015 (since theme makers usually just copy metrics.ini from OpenITG's default theme as a template), the issue is that the theme itself doesn't always push it's preferences into Stepmania.ini (Details, part 2 below).  I was at Acme yesterday playing around with somethings yesterday (Details below).  I've bumped us back to JudgeWindowAdd=0.0000 to maintain backwards consistency in the mean time, but am glad to set it as 0.0015 if it's what people feel is appropriate - I'll be down there again tonight and can take care of it easily.

(Details, part 1) I added a very, very subtle flash - with no image stretching (ITG3 used a stronger flash AND significant stretching) - to Chromatic, it should hopefully strike a balance between Tuan's stated preference for a non-distracting indicator and some people's preference for something.  The flash stops being noticeable during fast runs, with the indicator remaining a somewhat constant lighter tone, as the judgment for a step is replaced by the next too quickly to notice.  In my opinion, if you're not looking for it and/or playing high speed charts, you really won't notice, it's really, really subtle.

(Details, part 2) I learned a lot more about the boot sequence, theme metrics, and the main settings files (Stepmania.ini, GamePrefs.ini, etc) while fumbling with the machine yesterday.  Certain startup cases (killing and manually re-launching OpenITG is the most consistent way) with cause OpenITG to override Stepmania.ini with the default machine settings from the theme's metrics.ini.  This has, most commonly, changed the settings for Long/Marathon cutoffs and USB songs (in some themes the default maximum is set to 20 songs, rather than 50).  Yesterday, this caused some seriously scary issues as OpenITG's default theme (and therefore all derived themes) Preferences-cabinet:InputDrivers=none, which happens to make the machine unable to recognize the pads, buttons, and coin mechs, thereby rendering the machine useless.  I've fixed this in Chromatic, and I believe I threw the fix into Static.ini; if not, I will do so next time I'm there, as Static.ini should override any theme's attempts to set it to none.  Themes never push the Preferences-cabinet settings onto the machine during a theme switch, and usually not during a hard reboot (i.e. flipping the power switch), but will usually do so when I do cleaner shutdowns via SSH (I don't have the details down perfectly yet, the system's kind of complicated).

(Details, part 3) sfxazure was having some issues getting all of his USB songs to show up, which may have been related to Stepmania.ini overwrites from Details, part 2.  If anyone else is having only 20 songs show up on their card, let me know, so I can try to fix it.  I added the 50 song limit to Static.ini, which should resolve it completely, but I didn't have a chance to confirm.

EDIT: Swapping 0.0020 with 0.0015 in this post, since .0020 is the PS2 JudgeWindowAdd setting, not the arcade one (which is 0.0015).

« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 03:53:46 PM by ancsik »
 
Suko
Read May 02, 2011, 12:14:34 PM #1942

(Details, part 3) sfxazure was having some issues getting all of his USB songs to show up, which may have been related to Stepmania.ini overwrites from Details, part 2.  If anyone else is having only 20 songs show up on their card, let me know, so I can try to fix it.  I added the 50 song limit to Static.ini, which should resolve it completely, but I didn't have a chance to confirm.
Did you check the custom songs loading timeout option? If it's set too low, it will only load whatever songs it could grab before the timer expires. Note: Setting it to unlimited is a farce, as it can still go into the music wheel and only load a certain number of songs off of USB. On my machine, I've simply made it a practice to keep the number of songs on a USB stick below 25. This way, the machine has time to read P1 and P2's profile before the time limit is reached.
 
ancsik
Read May 02, 2011, 02:52:43 PM #1943

It's set to 10 seconds, which is where it's been every time I've checked.  The main things that stick out to me are:
1. While we set it to 50, the machine did reset itself to 20 the other day (which I then set back to 50, but it may have gone back to 20 with the other theme-induced changes).
2. The drive in question consistently showed 20 songs, even as he moved files on / off the drive.  It could just be coincidental, but that sort of consistency on a number that has been directly relevant in the past is worth noting.
 
Laura
Read May 02, 2011, 04:18:58 PM #1944

Oh yeah, Tony and I will be at ACME again tonight, along with TADA, who is back after over a year in Japan! Cheesy  Come say hi!
 
ancsik
Read May 02, 2011, 04:28:23 PM #1945

Regarding JudgeWindowAdd, I finally did a little searching of my own, and, after parsing through a lot of very angry posts on a few forums, I agree with swapping back to 0.0015.  Unless somebody speaks out against doing so (with a good reason), I'm throwing it on 0.0015 again when I get there tonight.

It's easy to push the setting to whatever, so we can always "fix" it again later, though, as far as I know, the only way to remove scores from wider window settings is to just delete everything... so, yeah, hopefully everyone's fine with 0.0015.

@NIMM: Kevin would know for sure, but when I skimmed for details, it seems that older dedicabs run DDR PC-2700.  Buying RAM is currently backburnered, though, as Kevin's information regarding how much RAM (one 1GB stick and one or two - I've managed to forget since yesterday - 512MB sticks) is physically present does not match the machines information, so I need to find some time to peel the machine off the wall and open up the computer to confirm Kevin's information (if correct, then, most likely, a stick is improperly seated - I'd just need to re-seat it and we're good to go).

« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 04:59:49 PM by ancsik »
 
Suko
Read May 02, 2011, 04:52:15 PM #1946

So, 0 is OpenITG and .0015 is original ITG2?
 
ancsik
Read May 02, 2011, 05:46:38 PM #1947

A little more complicated than that - this is the most concise, non-judgmental summary I can come up with (there may be slight inaccuracies, but it's close enough):

- ITG2 Dedicabs had explicit 0.0015 until r16, where they commented it out.  It was meant to compensate for the slower I/O polling rate of the Andamiro I/O system (PIUIO) vs. other OTG2 setups they were working with.  There's a comment in metrics.ini to substantiate this.

- ITG2 r16 fixed the slow polling rate of PIUIO, so Roxor felt it appropriate to remove the 0.0015.  They commented the 0.0015 out of metrics.ini and added a 2nd comment saying the bug was fixed.  Unfortunately, ITG copies metrics.ini settings to the machine's main files after a major change, so removing the 0.0015 setting does not change the machine's settings - it will only change if a theme explicitly overrides it.  Supposedly, later patches took out the line entirely, which still does nothing to change it.  No patch was found that tried to explicitly set it to 0.  The global offset was tweaked a little as well for reasons unknown.

- OpenITG originally set it to 0, since that was determined to be "proper".  OpenITG beta 3 sets it to 0.0015, since that was determined to be "appropriate", regardless of whether it is "proper" or not.  More on this later.

- Many themes (Chromatic and Ultimate included) are made by copying a rip of ITG2 r2's default theme, rather than using a fallback setting, so they persist the explicit 0.0015 from early revisions.

- It's been theorized that Roxor meant to set it to 0 for r16, but they messed up and though it would be set to 0 implicitly if they commented it out; personally, this theory is probably right.  Many tried to enforce setting OpenITG to 0 as "proper" based on this theory and made a big deal of r2-based themes ruining your OpenITG settings and invalidating that machine's scores.  Said group was mainly pre-r16 players who felt it devalued their accomplishments to be compared to newer players with their looser timing windows.

- The counterargument is r16-r23, which are objectively official (that is, Roxor - the singular authority on this subject - released them as official) and were the final set of official revisions, even if leaving the 0.0015 was an accident on Roxor's part.  Basically, if OpenITG with 0.0015 is invalidated, even if the cause was a faulty theme tweaking it, then what happens to unhacked machines which necessarily have 0.0015 and cannot be changed to 0?

Everyone seemed to accept that an unhacked machine is necessarily valid (it's official per Roxor, even if it wasn't "correct"), and OpenITG, being as close as possible to ITG2, must therefore be indistinguishable from ITG2 if both have the same timing windows.  So OpenITG with 0.0015 must be just as valid as an unhacked r16-r23 cabinet, so OpenITG with 0.0015 is necessarily valid.

There is a lot of respect to be had for players who are consistent under tighter settings, and while searching, Google tried to show me a video of someone 99ing Disconnected Disco on -0.0030 (which is really impressive, since that drops the Fantastic window from 20ms to 14ms), but as it stands, 0.0015 is the setting you will find on any unhacked machine and on a good number of hacked machines, so that should be the setting used for general play at Acme unless we agree otherwise.  Setting it wider is generally accepted to be cheating (I'd agree), but everyone seems to have calmed down and accepted 0.0015 as a reality of Roxor's uncorrected mistakes.

Personally, I'm not competitive outside of our own tournaments, so I have little reason to care what it's set to; come tournament day, we're all using the same machine.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 05:49:27 PM by ancsik »
 
ancsik
Read May 02, 2011, 11:37:47 PM #1948

JudgeWindowAdd is now set to 0.0015.  The difference may not be immediately apparent, but everyone will probably do something within a few sets that makes them do a double take.
 
Gerrak
Read May 03, 2011, 04:43:03 PM #1949

Tony. I love you man...

I got 2 quads today, Wam Bam Boogie and a requad on Tribal Style, 99.74 Xuxa took the record finally, 1e 99.94 Ize Pie took the record finally.

Not to say my timing wasn't right on for those songs anyway but man it seems to be making a big difference... Please just make sure it's not actually set easier than its supposed to, but clearly you understand this extremely thoroughly so I'll trust you on this.

This was also my first time on the theme on the pad, though I've played with the basic theme on the keyboard. I wasn't sure what to think about the non flashing timing, but with the slight tweak you added after playing on the pad its pretty much perfect. The theme is overall quite awesome except for ONE PROBLEM:

My USB will load all its songs, however the machine won't save any scores (including my quadsgrumblegrumble...), and always reverts back to Pink Fuzzy Bunnies, which was the last song from the 2nd to last set I played before the theme was put on (so probably referring to the LastGood settings or whatever). It also will show "NoName" (equivalent to No Profile Data) if I leave my card in for 2 consecutive sets, and hence I've had to take my card out and put back in between sets. It will still play my custom songs, so it's not that bad, but still something I was hoping you could take a look at.

Anyway thanks again for all your efforts!
 
ancsik
Read May 03, 2011, 05:16:30 PM #1950

That's a diverse set of USB oddities, but, as you said, the most important stuff is there so I won't be rushing out untested changes.  Out of curiosity, is your drive using "In The Groove 2" or "In The Groove 3" as the ITG folder?  Kevin tried to tweak the ITG3 theme to use an ITG3 folder, but it didn't quite work right and Chromatic is definitely not configured for it.

I've also had a request to add the USB profile summary that shows up at the end of the set (total songs, possibly awards, the "don't forget to take your drive" message).  In general, it seems like there may just be issues with the USB metrics (they were copied wholesale from ITG2 r2's theme data and are probably unchanged) that's built into the theme.

When I have some time to play around (might be tonight, but I was already planning on doing some tournament simfile work), I'll see how much damage I do to the visuals by switching the theme to use a theme built for OpenITG (either the OpenITG default or ITG3) as a fallback on my home OpenITG build and then steadily removing unnecessary Chromatic data (A theme is a combination of visuals and functionality, Chromatic has the r2 functionality when it just needs to specify the visuals and point at a functional, well-tested theme like ITG3 for the bulk of it's functionality, thus allowing it to inherit any new features as they are added).  It should not be too hard to lean on an up-to-date OpenITG theme's functionality without noticeably changing Chromatic's appearance, and then everything should be working great.

Once we fix up Chromatic a bit, I'll probably release the fixed build, at least on here, if not somewhere with a bit more traffic.

Also, glad to hear that the flash is working.  The goal was definitely subtlety, since the original intent of Chromatic was to have very little happen when you step and I think it works well for everyone, since there's nothing eye-popping about it.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 05:23:18 PM by ancsik »
 
 
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