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BLueSS
January 27, 2007, 02:10:04 AM - ORIGINAL POST -


« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 09:55:28 PM by BLueSS »
 
mvco
Read March 03, 2014, 06:11:37 AM #3001

At APHR, PM me your address, I will get some sensors off to you.  No reason you guys should be buying sensors, we provide them.   :-)
 
cwkarma123
Read March 03, 2014, 06:49:30 PM #3002

@ mvco, that would be wonderful! I will PM you tonight when I get home! Smiley

So been at ACME for a little over 2 hours working on the stage.

The Player 1 side is now in working order, for the most part... Abbye was able to get 4 on Big Sky in the TranceMania pack! Big improvement from not being able to full combo a 9 I'd say.

Turns out, there were a lot of sensors that were connected that I disabled, which caused the false triggers on the Right Arrow. Also, there were exposed wires in the Left Arrow that caused the arrow to trigger when they touched, so I took care of that. The Up Arrow is working far better than how it was the past couple days; it isn't 100%, maybe 85%... I also re-modded the entire stage after testing/rotating sensors. I used couple new sensors that I received from Bill a little bit ago, so the Down/Right/Left all have new sensors on the Player 1 side. Still need about 5 more new sensors to finish working on the Player 2 side...

Speaking of which, the Player 2 side Left Arrow is no longer sticking and functioning at 100%. Took a lot of tweaking and testing to get this particular arrow to stop sticking, but by some miracle, it is much better. As far as the rest of the arrows on the Player 2 side goes, they seem to be working decently well. I know the Down Arrow wasn't working very well yesterday, I believe this was due to reconnected sensors that I disconnected, specifically the down sensor in the Down Arrow. I re-modded all the arrows on the Player 2 side as well.

I will replace the old/worn sensors on the Player 2 side when I receive them from Bill. hopefully this will alleviate some of the pad issues.

An issue I've also noticed was, when 2+ up arrows are in rapid succession, you will almost always miss the second note. It feels as if the arrow is not releasing quickly enough to hit the second note. For instance, the chart for Beautiful Synergy (13) has a lot ladder patterns, most of which you will miss. I don't think this is a modding issue, perhaps a sensor issue? I'm not entirely sure... Any ideas?

I believe the stage is at about 80% working order. It isn't 100% better, but it is getting there. I'm doing what I can to make the stage shine again.
 
Ifc.NiNe
Read March 03, 2014, 11:27:17 PM #3003

Good shit Chris! Hopefully this didn't cost you as much as I think it would.

Quote
An issue I've also noticed was, when 2+ up arrows are in rapid succession, you will almost always miss the second note. It feels as if the arrow is not releasing quickly enough to hit the second note. For instance, the chart for Beautiful Synergy (13) has a lot ladder patterns, most of which you will miss. I don't think this is a modding issue, perhaps a sensor issue? I'm not entirely sure... Any ideas?

Everything else has been a sensor issue so check that first.

Anyways, Chris thanks for taking the time on fixing this stuff man. If you still wanna take a break just know me and abbye(if she doesn't take a break as well) will be kicking your ass when you get to playing again.
 
cwkarma123
Read March 04, 2014, 12:18:33 AM #3004

Good shit Chris! Hopefully this didn't cost you as much as I think it would.

Everything else has been a sensor issue so check that first.

Anyways, Chris thanks for taking the time on fixing this stuff man. If you still wanna take a break just know me and abbye(if she doesn't take a break as well) will be kicking your ass when you get to playing again.

I am more than happy to fix the stage for everyone! It can get very frustrating at times, especially when you can't figure out what exactly is wrong. It is rewarding however, to know that people enjoy playing on the ITG 3 machine at ACME. I take a lot of pride in what I've done to the stage at ACME and I will continue to fix it as long as I am active and playing.  Roll Eyes

As far as the Up Arrow giving me trouble... it more than likely will be a sensor issue, so when I do get some new sensors from Bill, I'll replace the janky ones.

I'm still thinking about a break. Not 100% sure about it to be honest... I still like to play, it just gets fatiguing at times.  Tongue

« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 12:29:55 AM by APHR »
 
Ifc.NiNe
Read March 04, 2014, 12:33:32 AM #3005

I know it does homie but if you do take a break you are not allowed to be gone for tooo long. I give you a week or two for a break but then I will need you to be back beast like a boss. I need some competition other you and Abbye. I mean its not like I see Pez out there. I've seen Ben but never playing ITG. I'm not really sure if he does or not though.
 
cwkarma123
Read March 04, 2014, 06:54:02 PM #3006

Hey guys,

Been working on the stage for about 2 hours now and it is working well. Playing charts around 130-160 BPM are almost no problem and full combos are pretty much possible!

Unfortunately, 170 BPM and up is still a huge problem. Particularly, the up and left arrows on both sides false trigger. I remember this same issue happening when the machine came back from sakuracon and had the big crash last year. This was prior to the pads being modded so I'm not sure what was done to alleviate this problem.

I'm not understanding how streaming at 140 BPM presents nearly no issues but when the BPM is increased to 174 (Ian's Pendulum Charts) the miss triggers are frequent! Could this be a software issue or does it remain a hardware issue?

My skepticism over the modding being an issue is due to the fact that it hasn't changed and it has work really well before the crash. Not but 2 weeks ago, I was getting SDE on 14's that were 180+ BPM with the same modding, but now I can't full combo anything above 174 BPM. The reason I'm logging everything is to record the work I've done, to hear insight from others, and to hopefully solve this as a community. Especially because sakuracon is coming up, we really new to haul ass and figure this out. I'm hoping that some new sensors will help.

Overall, the stage is almost back to 100%, just need to figure out couple major issues, namely the miss triggers at 170+ BPM.

I'm coming back tomorrow to continue working on the stage around 2PM. The machine probably won't be available for an hour or two while I work on it. I'm sorry I can't go any earlier, it is the only time I have to work on them.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 07:17:05 PM by APHR »
 
OrangeChicken
Read March 04, 2014, 10:44:16 PM #3007

I'm coming back tomorrow to continue working on the stage around 2PM. The machine probably won't be available for an hour or two while I work on it. I'm sorry I can't go any earlier, it is the only time I have to work on them.

Take your time man, you should be able to have the time you need to make the gameplay here enjoyable for everyone and especially you and Abbye, since you've invested so much into the pads.
 
cwkarma123
Read March 05, 2014, 11:15:37 PM #3008

@mvco: Thank you so much for sending me some new sensors I really appreciate it!

Hey everyone,

I was at ACME today for about 3 hours working on the pads. It has been definitely an uphill struggle to get these pads back to where they were 2 weeks ago.

I replaced 4 sensors, specifically, the Up and Left Arrows on both sides (P1-P2). They were giving us some trouble yesterday even after the re-modding, and I was really hoping these new sensors would do the trick. Unfortunately, they trigger really well, however we are still getting a lot of false triggers. I seriously don't think this is a hardware issue anymore. I've re-re-re-re-modded the stage and have replaced older sensors with brand new sensors.

Just today, I took everything off in terms of foam + tape mods and re-modded the entire stage once more, just in case it was the modding causing false triggers with the new sensors. Once more, the foam mod was the same as how it was before the crash even after the re-re-re-re-modding.

I'm trying to rule out foam modding to be the cause of the issue. I've tried playing without foam modding and the false triggers are still occurring, which leads me to believe the foam modding isn't the issue.

I've literally done everything I can to alleviate this problem. New sensors have been added, foam modding has been redone 4 times over the last 3 days, and I've played without foam, but the false triggers are still occurring.

130-160 BPM, as I mentioned before doesn't present to much of an issue. However, anything above 165+ BPM is not playable, especially if you are interested in your score. Take for example, Abbye played Die Now (14) along with me today and here are the results:



I stopped playing after getting so many Decents and Way-Offs. Abbye finished out and ended up with a ridiculous amount of Way-Offs in relation to her FA. She struggled so much to keep herself alive during the song. The chance of failing these songs are far to great even if you are 100% certain you are FA'ing properly. It isn't worth the $1.00 to fail right away or not get the chance to play what you want in fear of failing. You can't keep chancing your money on this game as it is right now. She and I 97%+ this song on a regular basis, often on the first or second set. This was several sets in while we were warmed up.

Again, I don't think this is a hardware issue at this point. I've done everything necessary to get these pads back up to 100%. To me the stage is in spectacular shape. I've added new sensors and new foam modding, tested every single sensor in every single arrow and selected the best one to use, rotated the arrow positioning every direction and they are still false triggering.

As of right now, I'm done working on it. There is nothing more I can do considering I've done everything I could.

I'm really tired of writing about this...  Shocked

Someone please help me fix this.  Sad

« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 11:21:10 PM by APHR »
 
Suko
Read March 06, 2014, 12:57:13 PM #3009

I really don't know what to tell you. I hate to say "I told you so", but I did say maintaining a highly sensitive pad at a public place as busy as Acme would be a constant struggle, if not impossible.

I applaud you for what you have done, but I feel (and this is just my opinion) that the ITG hardware was never designed or intended to be played at such an extreme level of play. I doubt they built the thing to handle people repeatably playing 15+ difficulty charts on it nearly a decade after it was made. The fact that  mods like foam modding and counter-sunk screws are almost considered a requirement to play most 15+ charts is indicative of this. People are modding these machines to play songs the original designers never thought would be possible.

However, since you are still spending hours trying to get it to work and it seems to be a clear divide between working and not working @ ~180 BPM, I suspect a software issue. Either debounce (mentioned earlier) or ghost hits due to the pads being too sensitive. But that's all I got. Out of curiosity, do you have issues playing NON-Stamina crazy songs above 200 BPM? Stuff like MaxX Unlimited, Afranova, or some of the Disconnected songs?

« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 01:00:00 PM by Suko »
 
cwkarma123
Read March 06, 2014, 02:19:51 PM #3010

@ Suko,

Thanks for your applause! I knew that working on a public access cab would've been a challenge but I really do care about our community and this machine!  Roll Eyes

I of all people tried to play some officials yesterday and still had issues. I played Rom30 & Juli8 (9) and got 4 excellents with no issues, but moved on to Let My Love Go Blind (9) and got a 90%... 160 BPM is still an issue... Sad

It appears to make little to no difference if the chart has heavy streams or not, its when the BPM gets higher (160-240+ BPM).

« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 02:28:06 PM by APHR »
 
cwkarma123
Read March 07, 2014, 01:29:34 AM #3011

@ Tony,

As you can read in the previous posts, both Abbye and I have worked on the stage tirelessly this week to no avail!  Lips sealed

We've done everything to restore the stage back to how it was pre-crash and in my opinion, the stage is in an impeccable state. There are new sensors and new foam + tape in both Player 1 and Player 2 sides. This leads me to think it has to do with software... but I'm not sure... Since I'm not very knowledgeable of the computer/software, I thought I'd ask you about what you think it could be.  Smiley

If it is a software issue, perhaps we can work together this weekend, or whenever you are available. If it remains a debouncing issue, we would be more than happy to test the 170~2xx BPM charts for you to make sure the timing on those charts are spot on. Smiley

Let me know!  Smiley
 
cwkarma123
Read March 07, 2014, 04:50:33 PM #3012

At ACME right now and ITG is unplayable for the most part.  Undecided

For those driving a long way to play, don't bother. It's a waste if money right now, there are far to many false triggers for the game to be fun and worth it.  Sad
 
sfxazure
Read March 07, 2014, 04:56:30 PM #3013

In other news, pump has been fine and is still fine! Cheesy
 
cwkarma123
Read March 07, 2014, 05:11:18 PM #3014

In other news, pump has been fine and is still fine! Cheesy

 Angry Teach the ways of the PIU.

Just played Pop the Track (19) and failed... To many twists and turns!  Cry

« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 06:06:50 PM by APHR »
 
Tyrgannus.
Read March 07, 2014, 06:28:08 PM #3015

Young grasshopper, one must not fear fancy footwork. Mastering speed, stamina, and accuracy is not how to master PIU like it is to master ITG. Embrace your inner Bloodrush. Embrace your inner Soapy Bubble. Embrace your inner The Beginning.

Then, grasshopper, you will understand how possibly to transition to the glory and villainy of 5-panel, though we all know that 10-panel is miles more fun.
 
Ifc.NiNe
Read March 07, 2014, 06:36:56 PM #3016

-le sigh-

nope, I will bare the pain for us and continue to play songs regardless of false triggers. If the pad will allow 140bmp then I will play
 
cwkarma123
Read March 07, 2014, 08:20:43 PM #3017

Young grasshopper, one must not fear fancy footwork. Mastering speed, stamina, and accuracy is not how to master PIU like it is to master ITG. Embrace your inner Bloodrush. Embrace your inner Soapy Bubble. Embrace your inner The Beginning.

Then, grasshopper, you will understand how possibly to transition to the glory and villainy of 5-panel, though we all know that 10-panel is miles more fun.

I have no fear!
 
cwkarma123
Read March 07, 2014, 08:22:52 PM #3018

-le sigh-

nope, I will bare the pain for us and continue to play songs regardless of false triggers. If the pad will allow 140bmp then I will play

In all seriousness, ITG is not worth the money my friend. It is horrible right now. The stage is in amazing condition but the false triggers are everywhere. I tried to do some TranceMania songs with Abbye today... made me laugh.... so many decents...  Angry
 
Ifc.NiNe
Read March 07, 2014, 08:50:32 PM #3019

lame - I wonder if it could deal with the I/O board
 
M477
Read March 07, 2014, 11:29:29 PM #3020

Angry Teach the ways of the PIU.
I never thought I'd hear those words from you.
 
cwkarma123
Read March 08, 2014, 01:44:50 AM #3021

I never thought I'd hear those words from you.

Well... When the ITG machine is a complete disaster, it is hard to keep playing. So tried to play PIU today and I have to say... Holy moly... So many twists....  Angry
 
nekura
Read March 08, 2014, 01:49:35 AM #3022

I never thought I'd hear those words from you.
I'm making a 90 minute trip tomorrow to play some Fiesta 2 and Infinity (only have unpatched Fiesta nearby and the pads are kinda crappy). I am so excited!
Angry Teach the ways of the PIU.

Just played Pop the Track (19) and failed... To many twists and turns!  Cry
For me, playing harder shit on Pump it Up was like the same mental leap as going from Standard to Heavy on DDR. You just have to get past overthinking that shit. Some of my favorite songs for understanding turns are actually easier ones like Moonlight 10 and 80s Pop 12 (or maybe it's 13).
 
ancsik
Read March 10, 2014, 07:27:21 AM #3023

Fixed it Saturday morning, didn't get a chance to post afterward, then forgot to.

I apparently typo'd an extra leading 0 in Static.ini, when I set the debounce setting there to lock it there after confirming it worked in Stepmania.ini, so the same error got written in again. It's truly fixed now. Really sorry I missed that, everyone.

After the fix, I was still having some trouble with P1 down giving out both misses and way offs. I tweaked it a little, and it helped, but it still needs some attention.
 
cwkarma123
Read March 10, 2014, 02:45:42 PM #3024

Fixed it Saturday morning, didn't get a chance to post afterward, then forgot to.

I apparently typo'd an extra leading 0 in Static.ini, when I set the debounce setting there to lock it there after confirming it worked in Stepmania.ini, so the same error got written in again. It's truly fixed now. Really sorry I missed that, everyone.

After the fix, I was still having some trouble with P1 down giving out both misses and way offs. I tweaked it a little, and it helped, but it still needs some attention.

Fantastic! I'll take another look at the down arrow. Might be some of the new sensors I've rotated in. I'll replace what was there before the rotation.

Thanks Tony!
 
OrangeChicken
Read March 10, 2014, 05:41:20 PM #3025

Please let the cab be okay. This is probably my last form of entertainment.
 
 
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