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October 01, 2011, 12:13:11 AM - ORIGINAL POST -
JSB

{Tournament} Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Try To Quad

Sunday, November 13, 2011 at Acme Bowl

The entry fee is $10

The qualifier begins at 11:00 AM. Players must be present and have their entry fees accounted for by 11:30, or they will not be permitted to qualify. We mean this: if you are sufficiently late, we will have to turn you away due to time constraints.

Bracket rounds will begin once all players present have had a chance to qualify.

The tournament will be played using ITG 1-3, Rebirth, and a tournament pack being prepared specifically for this event, which is available for download here: http://pwrsrc.net/~laura/Try to Quad.zip. The pack ranges from 8's to 14's, with an emphasis on the 9-11 range.  The pack consists entirely of songs which are already installed at Acme.

Qualifier

The qualifier round will consist of 2 songs. The qualifiers will be selected randomly from the allowable packs. Both songs will be played on Expert; one chart will be a 9 and one will be a 10. No long songs will be allowed as qualifiers.

Players will be ranked on each of the two qualifiers separately. The two rankings will be added together, and this total will be used to build an overall ranking, with the highest seeds being those with the lowest total scores. Ties will be broken by comparing the lower of each individual's song ranks - for example, if one player is ranked 8th in both songs and another is ranked 7th and 9th, the first player will win the tiebreaker - thus giving the higher rank to the player with more consistent performance. In the event there is still a tie - continuing the previous example, a third player was ranked 9th and 7th respectively, thus tying the second player's 16 point total and lowest rank of 9th - then the tied players will play a randomly selected 9 on Hard as a tiebreaker. No long songs will be allowed as tiebreakers.

Players will be seeded by their cumulative rank on the qualifier into the bracket as described below; in the unlikely event that there are more entrants than the bracket allows, the qualifier will also be used to trim the pool of entrants.

Bracket Format

An experimental tournament format will be used.  The organizers are using this bracket in an attempt to encourage a wider range of players to enter by keeping the highest seeding players out of matches until a few rounds into the tournament. This gives the lowest seeding players a chance to compete with players more closely matched in skill, rather than immediately facing the highest seeded players.  Most importantly, this format does not completely segregate players

The tournament will consist of two divisions, each using a double elimination bracket. There will be an 8 player championship division and a 16 (or 32, if more than 20 players enter) player main division.  The top 4 seeds will be placed directly into the corresponding top 4 slots of the championship division, with the remaining four slots filled by the top four players from the main division.

The main division will end before all rounds are played. Once 4 players remain (that is, 2 in the winners bracket and 2 in the losers bracket), these players will be seeded into the championship bracket. The two winners bracket players become the 5th and 6th seeds and the two losers brackets become the 7th and 8th seeds; the ranking within each of these pairs is determined by players' qualifier rankings.

The championship division begins once the main bracket ends and will be a standard double elimination bracket.  The two players from the losers bracket of the main division will still require two losses to be eliminated from the championship bracket, even though they already lost one match in the main division.

At the beginning of the final round, the finalist from the winners bracket will have no losses, so the challenger from the losers bracket must therefore win two consecutive matches to be declared the champion; if the challenger loses either match, then the tournament immedaitely ends and the challenger takes second place.

Given the amount of time between the qualifier and the start of the championship division, the top 4 seeds will be allowed to warm up immediately before the championship division begins; these players may opt to play a single song alone or to pair up with another top seed and play 2 songs.

Match Format

Matches will be scored as best 2 of 3 on charts played by both players, head to head. Both players will provided a card and asked to prepare a list of 3 song/difficulty pairs to present to the other player. One player will then select one option from their opponent's list to be played; after the first song has been scored, the second player will present their card to the first player, who will select one to be played. If there is a tie after 2 songs, random charts will be chosen from the allowable tournament packs until the tie is broken; subsequent tiebreakers will be played until a winner can be determined.  Rules regarding the selection of charts for cards and the difficulty of tiebreaker songs are specified under "Difficulty of Charts".

Songs will be scored by the default machine scoring formula - your score is exactly what the game says it is. In the event of a tie, the match moves on to the next song with neither player awarded a partial or complete win.

At the beginning of each match, the higher seed will select their preference regarding either
- What side of the machine they will play on
- Whether they present their song card first or second.
The lower seed will then make a choice regarding the remaining preference.

Arbitration of Pad Errors

If there are concerns about machine errors, alert the organizers immediately after the song ends - if a player stops halfway through a song due to errors, there is no way to properly arbitrate and the song will be scored normally.

The pad arbitration rules involve two separate recalculations. The first gives 3 points per disputed step (equivalent to alternating between Excellents and Greats); if this recalculation gives the affected player a win, that player will be awarded the win immediately.

If the affected score is not a winning score after the first recalculation, the second recalculation will be done, treating each error as 4.5 points, rounded down (equivalent to alternating Excellents and Fantastics, with the first error being an Excellent). If this recalculated score beats the opponent's score, then the match will continue to the next song, ignoring the results of the current song:
- If the disputed song was player selected, then the rest of the round will be played normally until the one random tiebreaker has been played. Should neither player have won two songs at this point, the card containing the disregarded song will be presented a second time, and one of the remaining songs will be selected by the other player. In the unlikely event that all three songs from a card are thrown out due to errors, a random tiebreakers will be used from then on.
- If the disputed song was a random tiebreaker, another random tiebreaker will be chosen.

If the second recalculated score is still a losing score, then the opponent's win will be maintained.

If both players claim pad errors, the recalculations will be done simultaneously.

Players are asked to report all errors, even if they don't effect the outcome of a song, so that the organizers can repair the pads when deemed necessary.

During the qualifier, errors will be recalculated as 3 points.

Charts Selection

In response to frequent disputes regarding what difficulties should and should not be allowed in a tournament, the following rules were created and subsequently tested at the Sakuracon 2011 ITG tournament. Organizers' observations as well as discussions with entrants indicate that this format was well balanced and enjoyable all around, without changing the outcome significantly from what was expected, so it will be used again with only a few minor tweaks.

If you think the rules sound neither fair nor fun after reading them, then please do not enter; nobody is being forced to enter, and previous impressions of this format have proven very positive.

(1) At all times, all charts from the allowed packs are selectable with any difficulty from Easy to Expert (Novice charts are not allowed), regardless of rating.

(2) Each round of tournament has a point value set. The three song/difficulty choices that a player makes must add up to this point value exactly; for example, if point total is 26, so players may pick two 9's and an 8, two 8's and a 10, or even a 12, a 13 and a 1, or any other set that sums to 26. Players will be given a card to write their set on and tournament staff will validate the set before the opponent sees it; if the sum is incorrect, the player will be asked to replace a single selection to achieve the correct sum.

Some charts, for example, those from ITG Rebirth, have been rated differently in different versions of the pack. The rating of a chart as it appears on on the machine will be considered correct; if a card is found to use erroneous ratings, the player will be asked to replace the erroneously rated chart with a chart which actually carries that rating - the other selections may not be changed in this situation. The organizers reserve the right to rerate charts selected for the tournament pack, but always use caution when exercising this right and will no longer do so once the tournament pack has been published.

Some long songs are included in the tournament pack. To keep the tournament moving at a smooth pace, a player may only write one long song on a given card.  If a player writes more than one, they will be asked to replace all but one will standard length songs of equal rating.

(3) The point values are set per round; each round in a given bracket has a higher point value than the last, though a player moving into the loser's bracket may play the same point total in the loser's bracket as they did in their last winner's bracket match. The lowest point total will be 26 (24 if the main division requires a 32 slot bracket) and the difficulties will progress as follows:
- The main division winners bracket starts at 26 (24 if a larger bracket is used) and increases by 2 points per round; the last matches are therefore set at 30 points.
- The main division losers bracket starts at 27 (25 if a larger bracket is used) and increases by 1 point per round, the last matches are therefore set at 30 points.
- The championship division winners bracket starts at 31 points and increases by 1 point per round; the last match is therefore set at 33 points.
- The championship division losers bracket starts at 31 and increases by 1 point per round; the last match is therefore set at 34 points.
- The final round of the championship division is set at 35 points for the first match and 36 points for the second match if one is required.

(4) Tiebreaker difficulties will set according to the current round's point value as well. The tiebreaker will be set at one third the point value, rounded to the nearest whole number - this means the the first two rounds of both brackets use 9's (8's if a 24 point round is necessary), tie breakers for the final matches of the main division will be 10's, and the final round of the championship bracket will use 12's as tiebreakers.

Each time a tiebreaker is being chosen, each player will be allowed to veto one of the random songs that appears; if multiple tiebreakers are needed for a match, the players will both have exactly one veto for each subsequent tiebreakers regardless of whether they have vetoed any songs previously. If the random song is on either players' card for this round, it will be skipped automatically.

Only one long song may be played as a tiebreaker in a given round - the organizers will automatically skip any subsequent long songs that come up.

(5) A player may not write a selection down multiple times; not only must the three choices on a given card be unique, but that player may not reuse any of those three song/difficulty pairs in any later tournament round; selecting a song on multiple difficulties, either on the same card or in different rounds is allowed, as the specific chart (song/difficulty pair) is what must be unique.

(6) Players may not put either qualifer on their card in any round, this rule does not apply to charts used as tiebreakers during the qualifier, and any player may pick those tiebreakers in tournament rounds so long as the remaining rules allow it.

(7) "You pick it, you pass it" - if a player writes down a chart on their card and their opponent selects it, the player must pass it. If a player fails their own selection, it is an automatic loss regardless of the two players' scores or whether their opponent passes or fails.

General Rules

Sandbagging - that is, intentionally playing under one's known ability to alter the sequence of tournament matches or the seeding order - is not allowed at any point during the tournament. Sandbagging is unsportsmanlike at best and a form of cheating at worst, thus sandbaggers will be automatically and immediately disqualified if caught. This is admittedly hard to determine, so this rule will be applied with extreme caution, but it is an insult to both the organizers and the other players to try, so a severe penalty is justified.

After finishing a song, players must not clear the results screen until the organizers tell them to do so. Any player who does so once will be warned not to do it again; if a player continues to clear the results screen without permissions, the cleared scores will be ignored and that player will automatically lose the song.

Players are to report to the tournament desk for their matches during the immediately previous match to provide time for players to make their selections and to ensure a smooth and timely progression through matches; players must report for a match before the end of the immediately previous match. If the current round has other matches remaining, then the players in the subsequent match will be found and asked to go first if present; if the missing player(s) are not found by the end of the first song of this match, then the missing players will be immediately disqualified. If players are missing for the final match of a given round, they will be disqualified immediately upon the end of the previous match.

During the first round only, players eliminated during the qualifier, if there were any, will be offered a chance to replace disqualified players. Such players will be offered the chance to do so according to seeding order upon the disqualification of another player.

Information about the order of upcoming matches will be made as visible and accessible as possible to entrants so that they can report for matches in a timely manner. If players need to or want to leave the arcade before they have eliminated from the tournament, they are responsible for knowing when they need to return for their matches; tournament staff will do their best to estimate the time until a player's next match, so that a player can have a reasonably safe idea of how long they may leave the arcade, but these estimates are not considered binding and cannot be used to justify a player's failure to report for a match.

Matches will be scheduled to prevent players from playing in consecutive matches as often as is possible, but the final few rounds of a double elimination bracket do require consecutive matches to happen. Players will be allowed up to 5 minutes of rest between consecutive matches if desired, but resting players are asked to report to the tournament desk to prepare song cards as soon as possible after their previous match - the 5 minute rest period will be considered to include time spent preparing song cards; completing a card does not automatically end the rest period, so a resting player may complete their card at any time without forfeiting remaining rest time.

Finally, and most importantly: players are expected to know the rules to a reasonable degree - ignorance of a rule does not excuse violation of the rule. Some rules only apply in specific circumstances, so the organizers will be understanding of confusion as it arises, but it is expected that all entrants have a general idea of what is and is not acceptable and/or required during the tournament. There will be a printed copy of the rules at the tournament for arbitration purposes and to provide entrants the opportunity to read them for clarifications as necessary. There will be no admissible reason for an entrant to not have a reasonable understanding of the rules as written; the tournament organizers will be happy to offer clarifications if a player is confused about some part of the rules.

The tournament organizers reserve the right to make changes to the rules as necessary before and during the event, but will only do so following discovery of either major inconsistencies or easy opportunities for a player to exploit the rules and achieve an unfair advantage. Unless one of these situations arises, the rules are finalized as written.

The tournament organizers additionally reserve the right to disqualify or refuse entry to any entrant or potential entrant for any violation of the rules above or behaviors deemed sufficiently inappropriate, disruptive, or unsportsmanlike; the appropriateness of disqualification is left to the sole discretion of the tournament organizers.

Prizes

All entry fees will go straight to the prize pool, which is to be divided among the top four entrants based on the following structure:

1st: 40%
2nd: 30%
3rd: 20%
4th: 10%

Re-rated Charts

In general, the organizers have  changed the ratings of some charts in the tournament pack; ratings are hardly an exact science, so changes were only made when a chart was thought to be decisively misrated. The following charts were found to need a rating adjustment:
-After Hours: 10 => 11
-Jingo Dance: 9 => 10
-Presto: 10 => 11
-Quasar: 10 => 12
-We No Speak Americano: 9 => 10

« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 08:23:07 PM by BLueSS »
 
October 01, 2011, 10:07:14 AM Read #1
Keby

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Holy god this came out of nowhere.
Alright, see ya guys there! Smiley
And yay a song I made is getting used! btw would you be accepting charts? like I have a couple that I think would be great for this. I'm not saying we have everyone make sim, but if you want these ones I'm offering let me know.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 10:08:41 AM by Keby »


Destroy limits.
 
October 01, 2011, 10:41:11 AM Read #2
Gerrak

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Quote
Holy god this came out of nowhere.
Old news if you came to Acme once in a while to hang out!

Grab your friends and get on the dance floor! Its tournament time Wink


Tell me how you gonna do it if you really don't wanna dance?

By standing on the wall?
 
October 01, 2011, 11:56:52 AM Read #3
Keby

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


I was there on wednesday really late, but on one is there Sad
I really do pick the worst times. Anyways since it's the tournament machine might as well start practicing on it.
Also yay this rule set again! I loved it at SC.


Destroy limits.
 
October 02, 2011, 10:33:07 AM Read #4
Gerrak

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


This thread got knocked off the main page so I'm bumping it back on Wink

Come down earlier evening, people tend to like to show up between more like 4-7 or so.

I assume this is in the works but can we make a pack of all the custom songs usable in the tournament and put it on the machine for now? Obviously they'd all be repeats but consolidating them into one pack would be helpful for knowing what's allowed. Thanks!


Tell me how you gonna do it if you really don't wanna dance?

By standing on the wall?
 
October 02, 2011, 07:24:48 PM Read #5
JSB

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Already on it!  Would have it up already, but we were in Portland this weekend.  Should be on the machine tomorrow and up for download here as soon as it's on the machine. Cheesy


I would so look cuter than her if I could find a pair of UGGs that would fit me.
 
October 03, 2011, 03:32:19 AM Read #6
Dr.Z

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Ah, Sunday morning wouldn't quite be possible for me...

Any chance I could show up at 12:15pm & still participate? I could potentially do the qualifier on Saturday night, to bypass that process.
:x

« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 05:19:05 AM by Dr.Z »
 
October 03, 2011, 01:11:24 PM Read #7
JSB

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


@Zach:  Since you let us know a month in a half in advance, that's absolutely fine.  My main concern is getting qualifying to end as quickly as possible, so you qualifying in ADVANCE should not be a problem in any capacity.  Either Tony or myself will be sure to meet you at ACME that evening. 

@Everyone else:  The tournament pack, which is a supplement to ITG 1-3 and Rebirth, is available for download here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5J0KGKDZ  and will go on the machine this evening. 


I would so look cuter than her if I could find a pair of UGGs that would fit me.
 
October 04, 2011, 08:25:37 AM Read #8
ancsik

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Pack is installed on the Acme machine as of last night.

The pack contains two mistakes: Quasar has an edit chart that should be removed and Uber Rave was not turned into an Expert chart (making it the single Hard chart in the entire pack, since every other Hard chart else was converted).  These mistakes will be corrected on the Acme machine, but the pack won't be reposted because both of these errors do not affect the correctness of the charts in the pack.


 
October 04, 2011, 09:50:28 AM Read #9
Gerrak

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


I know I briefly looked over the list already but it's possible we should throw a few of the charts out, like any super gimmicky ones (besides absurdity to learn, certain gimmicks may affect the maximum score of the song, such as in Loco) or kind of extraneous rarely-played songs you guys might have picked out (no offense). Again I don't have specifics but I hope that's ok if we keep the pack somewhat open to change for a week or two.


Tell me how you gonna do it if you really don't wanna dance?

By standing on the wall?
 
October 04, 2011, 10:29:47 AM Read #10
Keby

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Hey Laura put the link for the pack in the first post so people can see it immediately. Also this song list is weird, but I'm not complaining. BECAUSE KISS ME QUICKIKNOWWHATI'MPLAYING

« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 10:36:19 AM by Keby »


Destroy limits.
 
October 04, 2011, 11:52:43 AM Read #11
ancsik

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Laura has final call on rule/pack changes, but the general idea was to have the pack and rules finalized before posting; the rules allow for changes to be made, but only when there's very good reason to do so.  Personally, I feel the pack is very diverse and balanced across what I've seen people play; no pack will ever be perfect, but this one doesn't need to be changed as the tournament will be plenty fair.  Additionally, the pack only represents about a quarter of the playable songs, so anything significantly unfair is going to be diluted and the double elimination format exists solely to offset the risk of players being knocked out earlier than they "should" be (normally, this would just mean top players meeting early on, but it holds for any kind of upset).

While there are a few gimmicky picks, a few uncommon picks, and a few stamina picks, the rule set compensates for those - if a player really feels they can't beat an opponent without forcing a certain kind of chart, they need to draft up a very focused card, thereby sacrificing multiple charts that they specialize in.  As for tiebreakers, the pack is still only a quarter of the playable content and players can veto one song each, so the odds of a bad song or two affecting things is insignificant.

Anything that we thought might be too gimmicky was checked against how often we see people play it or how many people we've heard say they like it.  Anything uncommon was generally blocked unless we believed it was a good enough chart to warrant inclusion, and even then, it was mainly lower level charts which won't have a significant impact after the first couple rounds that we allowed in if they were new or rarely played (the 8's are primarily there to help pad the selection for the early rounds, so that players can still put in some harder picks - they're good charts, and they'll show up on some cards, but they probably won't actually get picked).

To reiterate, I'm not saying the pack is going to be nearly perfect, but I don't think there's anything inappropriate about it.  We may or may not reuse this pack in later tournaments (hasn't been discussed), but if we decide to reuse it, it'll be like DDR Illini's pack.  They analyze what actually gets played at their tournaments and revise the pack every few tournaments.  Since we've put in a good effort to balance this pack, I really don't think we need to freak out preemptively.  The tournament is going to fun, and if there are any issues, we can resolve them for the next tournament.  Tournaments are still more frequent in other communities, but we're starting to see some regularity again (this third "serious" tournament this year, plus we had SPERGIN and Sakuracon had an Extreme tournament in addition to ITG) - experimenting doesn't risk ruining the only tournament of the year like it used to.


 
October 06, 2011, 09:55:34 AM Read #12
Gerrak

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


I wasn't freaking out or anything, I took a first look at the song list already and it looks great. I honestly had only one chart immediately in mind when I said maybe we should take a couple out, and I can't remember the name, but it was like an "8" or "9" Hollie and Laura found, that Laura made me play, that had Loco-like gimmicks with suddenly appearing out of nowhere arrows.

My issues were that *maybe* it was a bit gimmicky (and a silly song in general) to require everyone to play it several times, or else have to avoid picking it. And also that songs that do these kind of gimmicks sometimes have unexpected "dropped holds" or "hit mines" that didn't actually occur but that affect the score. For instance I got a 4e FEC on Loco and got a 99.2, and then I got 7e on a different attempt and got a 99.3, and 4e should have been more like a 99.8 anyway. I'm just worried about this kind of inconsistency in a tournament setting.

That being said, you make good points that probably no one will *have* to play any given chart, being that we're using the card system. Was just something to think about, I didn't mean to cause a ruckus Wink


Tell me how you gonna do it if you really don't wanna dance?

By standing on the wall?
 
October 06, 2011, 11:02:24 AM Read #13
JSB

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


The chart you're thinking of is Spooky Song, and we mostly put it in there because it's fun and a few of us play it regularly.  You make a good point about negative BPM affecting score, though.  I will look into it and see if it's possible to quad! Smiley

The main concern is just that if we say "the pack is subject to change," that invites every single member's unsolicited opinion and lots of drama, which we don't want.  I appreciate legitimate concerns such as negative BPM impacting how a song is scored.


I would so look cuter than her if I could find a pair of UGGs that would fit me.
 
October 06, 2011, 12:58:42 PM Read #14
ancsik

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Spooky song is definitely a legitimate concern - I believe it works fine, but I can't guarantee that without testing.  Halloween ends with a freeze that gets skipped similarly, but I've never had an issue with it - I'll make sure it's fine, too, but my scores on it in the past have been wholly consistent with the scoring formula.

The reason for the long post was to keep a potential ruckus from starting - as Laura said, potentially inconsistent results and other reasonably objective concerns are valid reasons for dropping a chart, but individual opinion about what is and isn't an appropriate tournament chart (basically, if the reason boils down to "it's too gimmicky/hard/technical/boring/unknown/etc.") will be uniformly ignored because even considering one opinion means considering them all if the decisions are to remain fair to all entrants.


 
October 07, 2011, 09:53:47 AM Read #15
Gerrak

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Quote
if the reason boils down to "it's too gimmicky/hard/technical/boring/unknown/etc.") will be uniformly ignored because even considering one opinion means considering them all if the decisions are to remain fair to all entrants.

I do agree with this, except that you didn't really consult anyone but your own opinions; I just played a couple songs yesterday that I hadn't played in the pack and I feel like you guys picked several that aren't really that good (several 8bit very mediocre-at-best songs for instance, or like Spooky Song, which in my opinion really shouldn't have make the cut over good charts that didn't make it in the pack that many people play, like Space Time, or Mne Uzhe) and that I've not personally seen anyone play except you guys. I think I said when I looked over the list of song titles at first that I wanted to take a closer look at the ones I wasn't familiar with before you definitively posted the pack. I just feel like you guys were a little premature and should have allowed for a little more editing. Obviously my opinion shouldn't be more important than others, but I like to think I have a pretty good idea of what would make good tournament charts or not.

That being said, the pack is perfectly fair, especially with the card system, however I just felt it could have stood a little more ironing out. Alright enough bitching from me, I gotta get back to work!  Angry


Tell me how you gonna do it if you really don't wanna dance?

By standing on the wall?
 
October 07, 2011, 11:24:58 AM Read #16
JSB

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Mne Uzhe is in the pack.  Or at least, I told Tony to put Mne Uzhe in the pack, so if he didn't, that's a problem.  Tongue

As for the other stuff, I feel like it comes down to different "groups" of players.  The songs that Tony, Tada and I play are different than the songs you and Moses and Tuan play which are different from the songs that Ben plays.  We tried to strike a balance between all of the different groups of players, ourselves included, which means that there are going to be a few charts in the pack that everyone thinks are terrible. (Personally, I hate all of Flash's charts, but several people play them, so they're in the pack.)


I would so look cuter than her if I could find a pair of UGGs that would fit me.
 
October 07, 2011, 05:04:41 PM Read #17
sfxazure

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


The songs that Tony, Tada and I play are different than the songs you and Moses and Tuan play which are different from the songs that Ben plays.
Woot! I get my own category!
 
October 08, 2011, 12:27:57 AM Read #18
Suko

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


I think the fact that all these songs are identified and playable over a month before the event makes 'gimmicks' less of an issue. It could be useful to have a list of 'gimmicky' charts posted here so people know they should play those songs at least once to know what to expect.

For instance; I wouldn't have had ANY clue there's gimmicks in Spooky unless Gerrack hadn't mentioned it. Likewise, there is a chance someone hasn't played Post before and would be in for a crazy surprise if no one says anything.


Arcades may have gone away, but the arcade culture remains.

 
October 08, 2011, 12:23:59 PM Read #19
JSB

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Scott:  That's a good point, at least for songs that rely almost entirely on gimmicks.  Over half of the custom charts that come out these days have at least one or two weird things, so I'm assuming a little bit of BPM stuttering, a couple of stops, or a few quads aren't a big deal.  I think the only charts that are almost completely based around the idea of gimmicks are Post, Spooky Song, and Golden Palms.



I would so look cuter than her if I could find a pair of UGGs that would fit me.
 
October 08, 2011, 01:34:17 PM Read #20
ancsik

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Personally, I hate all of Flash's charts, but several people play them, so they're in the pack.

The first draft of the pack had the Flash picks listed as "Koko Soko and two or three others".  Like Laura, I'm not a fan of most Flash charts and, furthermore, they're really uncommonly played among the people I most often see at Acme - we ultimately consulted others to sort out the Flash picks.

For a non-Flash example - I've seen Space Time played twice; this doesn't mean that it's not popular with players who normally go at other times (e.g. the afternoon crowd), but I never see it played. Maybe it'll be in next version of the pack. We originally planned on getting a few people together to plan the pack; this plan fell apart due to time constraints, a month and a half is already much shorter notice than we'd wanted to give.

I don't deny that a half dozen of the charts were completely personal picks (I wrote a few, even), because there are charts I like that I had long felt were good for tournaments.  However, most of "my" picks (another dozen songs or so) went through a simple sanity check: whether I first played it at somebody else's recommendation.  There's still bias in there, but there were deliberate attempts to reduce it.

Also, we attempted to balance the difficulties, types of charts (stamina, speed, tech - as well as trying to focus on different tech elements), and chart maker (no single chart maker or group has more than 7 charts in the pack); there are more factors than just the popularity of each chart.  It's not going to be perfect - we will iron out the pack (or drop it and start from scratch) for future tournaments - but a lot of thought went into making a good starting point; given that only one person is speaking out, I think we did fairly well.

Personally, I'd rather find that a third of the pack proves very popular at the tournament (that is, people prioritize it over the core ITG packs) because we made it really diverse than find that half of the entrants dislike the entire pack because it was very narrowly focused on what the other half all love.  The ideal tournament pack won't have anything unpopular, but no starting point will ever be that good.

Regarding gimmicky charts, I would add Grindin' to the list; it doesn't do anything that you won't find in a lot of newer charts, but it does a lot of it.  Also, though Summer Rain is completely straightforward, it'd be best to play it once before the tournament so the foreground animations aren't unfamiliar - it shouldn't give anyone more than an Excellent or or two, but those points matter given that the average score on it is well over 99.


 
October 08, 2011, 04:00:52 PM Read #21
Keby

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Regarding gimmicky charts, I would add Grindin' to the list; it doesn't do anything that you won't find in a lot of newer charts, but it does a lot of it.

Really? I would disagree. Mainly because they aren't gimmicks (except for the rolls)
Those 64th's are actually triplets on a different time signature. They're not forced in there, they are apart of the song. I felt the need to explain that.
Can we stop with the giant essay posts. We get it, the pack in not pefrect, I don't think it's perfect, but whatever lets just deal with it for now. Next time lets get it better. If you guys kept switching things out the pack wouldn't be ready until tournament day.
everyone just download the pack, play it, know the songs, end of story.


Destroy limits.
 
October 08, 2011, 04:49:44 PM Read #22
Suko

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


I was thrilled to see Lum's song on there. And here I thought I'd be the only one who knew what Urusei Yatsura is until I saw the step artist. ^_^


Arcades may have gone away, but the arcade culture remains.

 
October 08, 2011, 08:01:19 PM Read #23
JSB

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


I was thrilled to see Lum's song on there. And here I thought I'd be the only one who knew what Urusei Yatsura is until I saw the step artist. ^_^

My influence.  Grin  I loved that show back in the day!  If you're interested, Lum no Love Song is also in Pop'n Music (as are Moonlight Densetsu and Cha La Head Cha La)!

Can we stop with the giant essay posts.

That's the way Tony posts in every thread.  

Seriously though, I would love if we could somehow get the entire community to be willing to shut the fuck up for a month and a half, get through a tournament without bitching, and then discuss what actually worked and didn't (as opposed to speculation and drama,) but I have come to accept that this is never going to happen and have instead elected to have me and Tony address concerns as they come up, to whatever degree of conciseness is appropriate.

The pack isn't changing and we won't be debating songs, formatting, etc. until AFTER the tournament (as part of an ongoing effort to improve the next one) so feel free to ignore giant essay posts and spend your time training instead! Smiley  However, complaining about them is sort of counterproductive too. 

« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 08:15:24 PM by SomeLauraChick »


I would so look cuter than her if I could find a pair of UGGs that would fit me.
 
October 08, 2011, 08:17:54 PM Read #24
ancsik

Re: [Tournament] Try To Quad - Sunday, November 13th @ ACME Bowl


Really? I would disagree. Mainly because they aren't gimmicks (except for the rolls)
Those 64th's are actually triplets on a different time signature. They're not forced in there, they are apart of the song. I felt the need to explain that.

I must have been mixing up Grindin' with some of your other charts - I was thinking it had weird timing, plus some stuttering, etc.  It's still distinct enough that I wouldn't want to be sightreading it at a tournament.


 
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