Dance Dance Revolution Arcades website. Seattle, Tacoma, Portland DDR and Arcade Games forum.Get New Topic Alerts
PNWBemani RSS PNWBemani on Twitter
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
October 01, 2011, 12:13:11 AM - ORIGINAL POST -

Try To Quad

Sunday, November 13, 2011 at Acme Bowl

The entry fee is $10

The qualifier begins at 11:00 AM. Players must be present and have their entry fees accounted for by 11:30, or they will not be permitted to qualify. We mean this: if you are sufficiently late, we will have to turn you away due to time constraints.

Bracket rounds will begin once all players present have had a chance to qualify.

The tournament will be played using ITG 1-3, Rebirth, and a tournament pack being prepared specifically for this event, which is available for download here: to The pack ranges from 8's to 14's, with an emphasis on the 9-11 range.  The pack consists entirely of songs which are already installed at Acme.


The qualifier round will consist of 2 songs. The qualifiers will be selected randomly from the allowable packs. Both songs will be played on Expert; one chart will be a 9 and one will be a 10. No long songs will be allowed as qualifiers.

Players will be ranked on each of the two qualifiers separately. The two rankings will be added together, and this total will be used to build an overall ranking, with the highest seeds being those with the lowest total scores. Ties will be broken by comparing the lower of each individual's song ranks - for example, if one player is ranked 8th in both songs and another is ranked 7th and 9th, the first player will win the tiebreaker - thus giving the higher rank to the player with more consistent performance. In the event there is still a tie - continuing the previous example, a third player was ranked 9th and 7th respectively, thus tying the second player's 16 point total and lowest rank of 9th - then the tied players will play a randomly selected 9 on Hard as a tiebreaker. No long songs will be allowed as tiebreakers.

Players will be seeded by their cumulative rank on the qualifier into the bracket as described below; in the unlikely event that there are more entrants than the bracket allows, the qualifier will also be used to trim the pool of entrants.

Bracket Format

An experimental tournament format will be used.  The organizers are using this bracket in an attempt to encourage a wider range of players to enter by keeping the highest seeding players out of matches until a few rounds into the tournament. This gives the lowest seeding players a chance to compete with players more closely matched in skill, rather than immediately facing the highest seeded players.  Most importantly, this format does not completely segregate players

The tournament will consist of two divisions, each using a double elimination bracket. There will be an 8 player championship division and a 16 (or 32, if more than 20 players enter) player main division.  The top 4 seeds will be placed directly into the corresponding top 4 slots of the championship division, with the remaining four slots filled by the top four players from the main division.

The main division will end before all rounds are played. Once 4 players remain (that is, 2 in the winners bracket and 2 in the losers bracket), these players will be seeded into the championship bracket. The two winners bracket players become the 5th and 6th seeds and the two losers brackets become the 7th and 8th seeds; the ranking within each of these pairs is determined by players' qualifier rankings.

The championship division begins once the main bracket ends and will be a standard double elimination bracket.  The two players from the losers bracket of the main division will still require two losses to be eliminated from the championship bracket, even though they already lost one match in the main division.

At the beginning of the final round, the finalist from the winners bracket will have no losses, so the challenger from the losers bracket must therefore win two consecutive matches to be declared the champion; if the challenger loses either match, then the tournament immedaitely ends and the challenger takes second place.

Given the amount of time between the qualifier and the start of the championship division, the top 4 seeds will be allowed to warm up immediately before the championship division begins; these players may opt to play a single song alone or to pair up with another top seed and play 2 songs.

Match Format

Matches will be scored as best 2 of 3 on charts played by both players, head to head. Both players will provided a card and asked to prepare a list of 3 song/difficulty pairs to present to the other player. One player will then select one option from their opponent's list to be played; after the first song has been scored, the second player will present their card to the first player, who will select one to be played. If there is a tie after 2 songs, random charts will be chosen from the allowable tournament packs until the tie is broken; subsequent tiebreakers will be played until a winner can be determined.  Rules regarding the selection of charts for cards and the difficulty of tiebreaker songs are specified under "Difficulty of Charts".

Songs will be scored by the default machine scoring formula - your score is exactly what the game says it is. In the event of a tie, the match moves on to the next song with neither player awarded a partial or complete win.

At the beginning of each match, the higher seed will select their preference regarding either
- What side of the machine they will play on
- Whether they present their song card first or second.
The lower seed will then make a choice regarding the remaining preference.

Arbitration of Pad Errors

If there are concerns about machine errors, alert the organizers immediately after the song ends - if a player stops halfway through a song due to errors, there is no way to properly arbitrate and the song will be scored normally.

The pad arbitration rules involve two separate recalculations. The first gives 3 points per disputed step (equivalent to alternating between Excellents and Greats); if this recalculation gives the affected player a win, that player will be awarded the win immediately.

If the affected score is not a winning score after the first recalculation, the second recalculation will be done, treating each error as 4.5 points, rounded down (equivalent to alternating Excellents and Fantastics, with the first error being an Excellent). If this recalculated score beats the opponent's score, then the match will continue to the next song, ignoring the results of the current song:
- If the disputed song was player selected, then the rest of the round will be played normally until the one random tiebreaker has been played. Should neither player have won two songs at this point, the card containing the disregarded song will be presented a second time, and one of the remaining songs will be selected by the other player. In the unlikely event that all three songs from a card are thrown out due to errors, a random tiebreakers will be used from then on.
- If the disputed song was a random tiebreaker, another random tiebreaker will be chosen.

If the second recalculated score is still a losing score, then the opponent's win will be maintained.

If both players claim pad errors, the recalculations will be done simultaneously.

Players are asked to report all errors, even if they don't effect the outcome of a song, so that the organizers can repair the pads when deemed necessary.

During the qualifier, errors will be recalculated as 3 points.

Charts Selection

In response to frequent disputes regarding what difficulties should and should not be allowed in a tournament, the following rules were created and subsequently tested at the Sakuracon 2011 ITG tournament. Organizers' observations as well as discussions with entrants indicate that this format was well balanced and enjoyable all around, without changing the outcome significantly from what was expected, so it will be used again with only a few minor tweaks.

If you think the rules sound neither fair nor fun after reading them, then please do not enter; nobody is being forced to enter, and previous impressions of this format have proven very positive.

(1) At all times, all charts from the allowed packs are selectable with any difficulty from Easy to Expert (Novice charts are not allowed), regardless of rating.

(2) Each round of tournament has a point value set. The three song/difficulty choices that a player makes must add up to this point value exactly; for example, if point total is 26, so players may pick two 9's and an 8, two 8's and a 10, or even a 12, a 13 and a 1, or any other set that sums to 26. Players will be given a card to write their set on and tournament staff will validate the set before the opponent sees it; if the sum is incorrect, the player will be asked to replace a single selection to achieve the correct sum.

Some charts, for example, those from ITG Rebirth, have been rated differently in different versions of the pack. The rating of a chart as it appears on on the machine will be considered correct; if a card is found to use erroneous ratings, the player will be asked to replace the erroneously rated chart with a chart which actually carries that rating - the other selections may not be changed in this situation. The organizers reserve the right to rerate charts selected for the tournament pack, but always use caution when exercising this right and will no longer do so once the tournament pack has been published.

Some long songs are included in the tournament pack. To keep the tournament moving at a smooth pace, a player may only write one long song on a given card.  If a player writes more than one, they will be asked to replace all but one will standard length songs of equal rating.

(3) The point values are set per round; each round in a given bracket has a higher point value than the last, though a player moving into the loser's bracket may play the same point total in the loser's bracket as they did in their last winner's bracket match. The lowest point total will be 26 (24 if the main division requires a 32 slot bracket) and the difficulties will progress as follows:
- The main division winners bracket starts at 26 (24 if a larger bracket is used) and increases by 2 points per round; the last matches are therefore set at 30 points.
- The main division losers bracket starts at 27 (25 if a larger bracket is used) and increases by 1 point per round, the last matches are therefore set at 30 points.
- The championship division winners bracket starts at 31 points and increases by 1 point per round; the last match is therefore set at 33 points.
- The championship division losers bracket starts at 31 and increases by 1 point per round; the last match is therefore set at 34 points.
- The final round of the championship division is set at 35 points for the first match and 36 points for the second match if one is required.

(4) Tiebreaker difficulties will set according to the current round's point value as well. The tiebreaker will be set at one third the point value, rounded to the nearest whole number - this means the the first two rounds of both brackets use 9's (8's if a 24 point round is necessary), tie breakers for the final matches of the main division will be 10's, and the final round of the championship bracket will use 12's as tiebreakers.

Each time a tiebreaker is being chosen, each player will be allowed to veto one of the random songs that appears; if multiple tiebreakers are needed for a match, the players will both have exactly one veto for each subsequent tiebreakers regardless of whether they have vetoed any songs previously. If the random song is on either players' card for this round, it will be skipped automatically.

Only one long song may be played as a tiebreaker in a given round - the organizers will automatically skip any subsequent long songs that come up.

(5) A player may not write a selection down multiple times; not only must the three choices on a given card be unique, but that player may not reuse any of those three song/difficulty pairs in any later tournament round; selecting a song on multiple difficulties, either on the same card or in different rounds is allowed, as the specific chart (song/difficulty pair) is what must be unique.

(6) Players may not put either qualifer on their card in any round, this rule does not apply to charts used as tiebreakers during the qualifier, and any player may pick those tiebreakers in tournament rounds so long as the remaining rules allow it.

(7) "You pick it, you pass it" - if a player writes down a chart on their card and their opponent selects it, the player must pass it. If a player fails their own selection, it is an automatic loss regardless of the two players' scores or whether their opponent passes or fails.

General Rules

Sandbagging - that is, intentionally playing under one's known ability to alter the sequence of tournament matches or the seeding order - is not allowed at any point during the tournament. Sandbagging is unsportsmanlike at best and a form of cheating at worst, thus sandbaggers will be automatically and immediately disqualified if caught. This is admittedly hard to determine, so this rule will be applied with extreme caution, but it is an insult to both the organizers and the other players to try, so a severe penalty is justified.

After finishing a song, players must not clear the results screen until the organizers tell them to do so. Any player who does so once will be warned not to do it again; if a player continues to clear the results screen without permissions, the cleared scores will be ignored and that player will automatically lose the song.

Players are to report to the tournament desk for their matches during the immediately previous match to provide time for players to make their selections and to ensure a smooth and timely progression through matches; players must report for a match before the end of the immediately previous match. If the current round has other matches remaining, then the players in the subsequent match will be found and asked to go first if present; if the missing player(s) are not found by the end of the first song of this match, then the missing players will be immediately disqualified. If players are missing for the final match of a given round, they will be disqualified immediately upon the end of the previous match.

During the first round only, players eliminated during the qualifier, if there were any, will be offered a chance to replace disqualified players. Such players will be offered the chance to do so according to seeding order upon the disqualification of another player.

Information about the order of upcoming matches will be made as visible and accessible as possible to entrants so that they can report for matches in a timely manner. If players need to or want to leave the arcade before they have eliminated from the tournament, they are responsible for knowing when they need to return for their matches; tournament staff will do their best to estimate the time until a player's next match, so that a player can have a reasonably safe idea of how long they may leave the arcade, but these estimates are not considered binding and cannot be used to justify a player's failure to report for a match.

Matches will be scheduled to prevent players from playing in consecutive matches as often as is possible, but the final few rounds of a double elimination bracket do require consecutive matches to happen. Players will be allowed up to 5 minutes of rest between consecutive matches if desired, but resting players are asked to report to the tournament desk to prepare song cards as soon as possible after their previous match - the 5 minute rest period will be considered to include time spent preparing song cards; completing a card does not automatically end the rest period, so a resting player may complete their card at any time without forfeiting remaining rest time.

Finally, and most importantly: players are expected to know the rules to a reasonable degree - ignorance of a rule does not excuse violation of the rule. Some rules only apply in specific circumstances, so the organizers will be understanding of confusion as it arises, but it is expected that all entrants have a general idea of what is and is not acceptable and/or required during the tournament. There will be a printed copy of the rules at the tournament for arbitration purposes and to provide entrants the opportunity to read them for clarifications as necessary. There will be no admissible reason for an entrant to not have a reasonable understanding of the rules as written; the tournament organizers will be happy to offer clarifications if a player is confused about some part of the rules.

The tournament organizers reserve the right to make changes to the rules as necessary before and during the event, but will only do so following discovery of either major inconsistencies or easy opportunities for a player to exploit the rules and achieve an unfair advantage. Unless one of these situations arises, the rules are finalized as written.

The tournament organizers additionally reserve the right to disqualify or refuse entry to any entrant or potential entrant for any violation of the rules above or behaviors deemed sufficiently inappropriate, disruptive, or unsportsmanlike; the appropriateness of disqualification is left to the sole discretion of the tournament organizers.


All entry fees will go straight to the prize pool, which is to be divided among the top four entrants based on the following structure:

1st: 40%
2nd: 30%
3rd: 20%
4th: 10%

Re-rated Charts

In general, the organizers have  changed the ratings of some charts in the tournament pack; ratings are hardly an exact science, so changes were only made when a chart was thought to be decisively misrated. The following charts were found to need a rating adjustment:
-After Hours: 10 => 11
-Jingo Dance: 9 => 10
-Presto: 10 => 11
-Quasar: 10 => 12
-We No Speak Americano: 9 => 10

« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 08:23:07 PM by BLueSS »
Read October 08, 2011, 11:34:08 PM #26

Golden Palms just reminds me of the retarded timing of early house songs in IIDX. Not to say its a bad thing because I actually like the gimmick.
Read October 09, 2011, 03:45:24 PM #27

The upload link doesn't work for me =(
Read October 10, 2011, 09:47:40 AM #28

Hey can we get a Facebook event made out of this to help spread the word and encourage commitment? Time to move into the future! Also something to put onto the Acme machine would be very helpful as well!

Thanks Wink

Also, speaking of Grindin. Grindin should really be rerated as an 11. I played it again the other day and I think I can say with confidence it's not really a 10. Also Mne Uzhe (which is indeed in the pack, my apologies) should be rerated an 11 as well if it hasn't been already (And was rerated for the Illinois pack). It's also most certainly not a 10. If you want to leave them as-is, go ahead, but thought I'd mention the observation.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 09:53:18 AM by Gerrak »
Read October 10, 2011, 10:52:11 AM #29

Mne Uzhe should be marked as an 11 already, thought I can't remember if that's because I rerated the Hard chart or used the Expert chart.  The difference is 4 jumps that get turned into stomps, which is hardly the split between a 10 and an 11.

As for Grindin', I haven't played it in quite awhile, so I can't comment.  It's also Laura's call whether to rerate it.

We had meant to get a FB event posted from the PNWBemani account, I'll remind Laura about it.

Regarding the upload link, it looks like MU dropped it, not sure why.  I'll try to get it posted somewhere again tonight.
Read October 10, 2011, 02:05:30 PM #30

We're having some technical difficulties with getting me the permissions to make an official PNWBemani facebook event, but we'll have it taken care of within the next few days.  Smiley

There are a lot of songs that are misrated - Kom is very clearly a 10, not an 11, and Post is way easier than Golden Palms, so Post should either be downgraded to a 10 or Golden Palms should be upgraded to an 11.  Whether or not to actually do this at this stage is questionable, though.  We'll let everyone know if any re-rates happen in bold on the first post.  Smiley
Read October 12, 2011, 01:46:01 PM #31

I don't think anyone's trying to bend the rules (including the pack) in their favor; most of the arguments we've had over prior tournaments focus on what is seen as fair to all entrants or what might discourage less skilled players from entering.  People generally seem legitimate when expressing such concerns.

In this case, the rules were finalized before posting. It's explicitly stated that they won't change unless a major flaw is found, so trying to sway the rules to get a slight advantage won't actually do anything; we've given up on discussing the rules in advance - everyone assumes every proposal will ruin it for half the players, so nothing useful comes of it - hence deferring discussion until afterward, when people can actually comment from experience, as much as possible.

The pack discussion covered an objective issue: Spooky Song might not be perfectly appropriate for a tournament because of potential scoring problems.  This still hasn't been tested, but it's a legitimate concern that needs to be addressed and which will be addressed as soon as possible.

The discussion spent a lot more time on the issue of whether the pack matches what people actually play.  I am entering and had a heavy hand in building the pack, which means there is a conflict of interest. The "essay posts" provide transparent justification for the choices in direct response to concerns raised by potential entrants which were directly relevant to this conflict of interest.

A third point that came up in conjunction to the above is chart quality, which is subjective to a great extent.  No one has expressed concerns based entirely on quality, so we haven't had to dismiss any concerns as mere opinion.  If somebody does say "remove X because it sucks" with no other justification, they will be ignored.

I've attempted to make my responses concise without sacrificing completeness. They run long because it takes a sentence or two to respond to each concern, and that adds up when there are enough concerns awaiting responses.  Completeness is a priority because a conflict of interest has been identified; furthermore, complete responses will cover very similar concerns, keeping others from raising only-slightly-different concerns later. The debate seems to have died down finally, so the essay posts will die down as well.

TL;DR: If you complain about a lot of things, my posts have to be long, since I have to respond to each complaint.  If you don't complain, my posts are short (or don't exist).
Read October 12, 2011, 05:07:58 PM #32

TL;DR: If you complain about a lot of things, my posts have to be long, since I have to respond to each complaint.  If you don't complain, my posts are short (or don't exist).

Tony may have just discovered the only effective way to ensure a PNW ITG tournament runs smoothly.  Cheesy
Read October 13, 2011, 09:52:28 AM #33

But it's the competition within the competition.  It's the strategic portion of it.  Attempting to get the rules bent in your favor is an essential part of any tournament, because if successful, you can get yourself an advantage before even setting foot on the machine.

Tony already kind of addressed this with:
I don't think anyone's trying to bend the rules (including the pack) in their favor; most of the arguments we've had over prior tournaments focus on what is seen as fair to all entrants or what might discourage less skilled players from entering.  People generally seem legitimate when expressing such concerns.

But I wanted to say, don't up and make wise-cracks about people trying to cheat; people here are really just trying to ensure things are fair and reasonable with the song selection. I've told Tony to remove songs that are specifically advantageous to me, such as Seven, which (sorry to say) none of you stand a chance in hell of beating me at, or to put in songs like Be Alive (if it isn't in there already) that I'm way worse than most people at, but a ton of people play. No one's trying to bend the rules for their own benefit Tongue

At worst you'll look like a whiny brat, but chances are most people here have argued over rules before and already have that label on them
I'll assume you're talking about me with this, but whoever you're referring to, you should really just shut the hell up and not run your mouth about tournaments you didn't even participate and couldn't even hope to be competitive in. Tournaments where we've argued over plenty of things that either ended up being changed for good reason or didn't change and found out we should have.

Bullshit comments like this are insulting and uncalled for...  Angry

« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 02:39:43 PM by Gerrak »
Read October 13, 2011, 08:08:44 PM #34

What's the status on the upload link? I'd like to get practicing sometime soon. =)
Read October 13, 2011, 09:04:57 PM #35

I'll assume you're talking about me with this,
Why would you assume he's talking about you?
but whoever you're referring to,
...and really, why would you assume he's referring to anyone in particular?
you should really just shut the hell up and not run your mouth about tournaments you didn't even participate and couldn't even hope to be competitive in.
Who the hell belittles people for their ITG skill? We get that you're a talented player, but that doesn't give you any right to start swinging your dick in people's faces when they say things you don't like. Your opinions don't magically become more important each time you pass a dragonforce song, so do the community a favor and stop acting that way.
Read October 15, 2011, 10:36:21 AM #36


Youve never seen!       
                    Like this before!

Chevrolet corvette 1984 Commercial

This is why the 80's is the best decade

Oh I thought that because Tada said "you'll look like a whiny brat, but most people who've argued over things have that label on them already". I've argued over things, so yes that comment directly called me and others who've brought up legitimate concerns in the past 'whiny brats'. I found this direct insult to be, well, insulting. Oh also Ben I don't care about anything you think about anything.
Read October 15, 2011, 11:30:03 AM #37

Oh also Ben I don't care about anything you think about anything.
Wut? lol.

Anyways, is there any update for the facebook page? also 1001 arabian nights is awesome. I can't believe I never played it before.
Read October 16, 2011, 12:33:30 AM #38

Basically, I can't seem to get access to the PNW Facebook, so Jon has to make the event whenever he has time.  Smiley  He's going to, though!

And yes, 1001 Arabian Nights is INCREDIBLE.  I die laughing every time they say "Pyramids" "EGYPT."
Read October 16, 2011, 01:18:48 AM #39

grow up guys, we're Adults
Happy Redneck
Read October 16, 2011, 03:16:05 PM #40

aite playa
Read October 16, 2011, 10:05:08 PM #41

Facebook Event Invite:
Read October 17, 2011, 12:38:58 PM #42

Don't forget to forward the invite to anyone we missed! I got like 10 more people invited, but there's certainly people missing that I don't have on facebook.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 09:38:55 AM by Gerrak »
Read October 17, 2011, 07:44:00 PM #43

Yeah, I'll go through and invite anyone I know who hasn't been invited later tonight. 

Also, update on the pack:  I found reliable hosting, so when it goes back up tonight or tomorrow I'll post a link that will continue to work up until the day of the tournament! Cheesy
Read October 17, 2011, 07:45:28 PM #44

Yeah, I'll go through and invite anyone I know who hasn't been invited later tonight. 

Also, update on the pack:  I found reliable hosting, so when it goes back up tonight or tomorrow I'll post a link that will continue to work up until the day of the tournament! Cheesy

Read October 18, 2011, 02:26:41 PM #45

Pack is back up! Cheesy
Read October 18, 2011, 03:21:53 PM #46

Pack is back up! Cheesy

Woo! Thank you Laura =)
Read October 19, 2011, 02:49:12 AM #47

Ill try and make it, just depends how work goes the night before and how tired I am from it
Read October 19, 2011, 09:44:44 AM #48

Guys I'm not gonna lie...

      I actually really like Golden Palms.... So y'all better learn it Wink

Also je t'adore is late enough to be considered offsync by me. It's later than Coming Out; I got 5 or 6e on it finally by thinking the whole time "hit it way way way way later than the actual beat is" which shouldn't be right. It should probably be resynced for the tournament if this is reasonable.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 09:55:18 AM by Gerrak »
Read October 19, 2011, 12:45:06 PM #49

It's early enough that I think it'd be perfectly fair to resync songs that are off as long as multiple people agree.  Tony and I both think Je T'adore could use a resync too, so we'll do that this week.

Golden Palms is awesome. 
Read October 20, 2011, 12:52:58 PM #50

All of Kebys charts are also late if you want others to resync. Not by any means THAT bad but Grindin is exceptionally hard to time the teals when they're off, Hawaiian roller coaster and Americano are both about Coming Out-caliber late. Most others are ok, as best I can remember. I'll try to mention any others I notice.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
Jump to: