Pluto relinquish is a 13 by ITG standards.  Point me to any ITG chart with 200bpm 16th crossover runs and tell me I'm wrong. It's actually a good chart until those runs though.

Gerrak> there's a lot of pre 8th mix songs on SN2.  They're just under the "DDR Extreme" folder. There are very few songs that were in SN (under that same folder, btw...) that aren't in SN2.  Today I played Rain of Sorrow.  That is a Max2 song.  I almost picked AM3P.  That's like a 2nd mix song.  I actually don't like a lot of the SN2 songs either haha.

3rd-8th mix wasn't about bemani's greed, but later it was?  You obviously don't know anything about the history of DDR games (or uh, business in general...), haha...  7th was probably the firsty game that happened as a result of peoples' voice (which actually just translates to profitability), and then later SN. 

One thing I can't argue is the fact that you like ITG.  ITG and DDR are not marketed to the same people.  DDR is marketed to a, well, market.  ITG is marketed to just competitive players.  You like hard shit.  ITG provides a means to play hard shit.  You like ITG.  DDR doesn't.  You don't like DDR.  QED.

What kind of charts you consider crap is a totally subjective matter, btw.  I think a lot of ITG charts are total shit (ESPECIALLY ITG1, not as much ITG2, and then rebirth/3 are hit or miss with experiments with gimmicks).  I'm not saying I like all DDR charts, but I also happen to dislike charts that just go with every quick succession of noises in the song. Sometimes it works (summer works I think) but other times it's just a massive fail (like hardcore symphony).  All in all, SN+SN2's expert/challenge charts are similar in quality to those on ITG.  At least to me. 

I'm also biased because I'm a double player.  ITG double charts are complete and total shit.  period.

I share this opinion. Quote for truth. Period.

You can actually get Extra Stage in SN2 by picking Random for your 3rd song and then AA'ing it. Then if you pick Random for Extra Stage and AA that, you get OMES. Yeah, it's weird...

Wait a minute erratic bpm changes?  NGO has a slowdown at the beginning, which has a speed up awkwardly placed 8th note before one step, but otherwise has very predictable speed changes.  And not many of them.  Also Unreal is just as hard as any other 9 on DDR OR ITG, I wonder why you put it in quotes.  The one stock battery thing means you just didn't do all that well on Unreal.  950000 is one, 990000 is four, I remember 977xxx was two, so probably three at 980000

Gerrak, in general, I can't "let you have it," because you're just expressing your opinion about subjective matters, and I totally respect that! But I do feel the need to say what everyone else is saying about the music - namely, almost everything that's playable in Supernova is playable in Supernova 2. The "Extreme" section actually contains songs from DDR's earliest history all the way up THROUGH Extreme. Supernova 2 also fixed some of the weird sync glitches that remained untouched (or changed, but not for the better) post-patch in Supernova.

My opinion is basically that Supernova 2 is a better game than Supernova, in that it's basically just Supernova but with fewer horribly off-sync songs and more music. Of the US distributed DDR games, it's by far the best. That said... my personal preference is definitely for Extreme (or 4th +, or 5th.) I definitely have fun playing SN2, though, and will definitely continue to play it.

Regarding ITG, I'm mixed. On one hand, it's not really a game that's made for me. I have breathing problems that prevent songs rated over a 10 from being safe for me to play, and hate any song that sounds even remotely like the Maxes or Paranoias (so half of the music on ITG.) On the other hand, I can't argue that custom songs give the game unlimited ability to improve. And while I don't necessarily love most of the music that's "native" to an ITG2 cabinet, I can't help but love playing Lucky and Spinnin' Around.

I don't know how different my assessments of these games would be if I didn't have all kinds of health problems that made some of the hard stuff physically unplayable for me, or if the focus was simply not on extremely difficult charts. I'd probably like ITG a whole lot more than DDR.

I love how every post Gerrak makes brings back an ITG vs DDR debate.

Regarding SN2 unlocks, What do we need to do to get that done?  I was going to research that, but have to get my butt off to work now.  Lets get that done!

They're just like ITG unlocks. Anyone can do them.

http://www.konami.jp/bemani/ddr/na/am/sn2/secret/index.html

I may swing by Acme today, so I could give this a shot? Can you only do one per credit, or only one unlock per game?

You have to do it immediately after inserting your coins, and before it goes back to attract mode, so that's usually time to get only one code in. Maybe two if you're really fast.  I unlocked Pink Gorilla's machine, and thankfully had access to the op menu to reset it each time.

You can't just enter the last one by itself?

I tried this, and it didn't work... So after playing through another set and putting in another credit, I tried entering in the Lv1 code, and it also didn't work. Am I doing something wrong? I got both codes in well before the "How to Play" screen came on, so I'm not quite sure why it isn't working.

You have to do them in order, 1, 2, 3,... You can't step on arrows before the code starts, and it's really fussy.

Ah, this could be it, then. I was also just running through it like it was a doubles chart; the game could only be registering one arrow at a time?

I only had a few bucks in change on me, so I didn't bother trying it more than a few times. Sorry guys. :/

Oh, one more thing, it worked when each note was on a beat, because in the code they're on each line, so it always worked when I hit each arrow as if it was a quarter beat note.

Chromatic Blitz is only 190 with no crossovers. Other 13s are like 170-185 also usually w no crossovers. This chart of which you speak doesnt sound like much fun at all >.<

I didn't know this, I didnt thoroughly look through the Extreme folder I just saw it and assumed it was only 8th mix, so my bad.

Yeah pretty much.... I like more dance/techno type stuff rather than japanese pop though also which is just a matter of opinion I guess. Plus I love things like hands and mines and what they bring to some very cool 9s and 10s

I agree there are definitely some crappy charts on ITG but I just notice a lot more good charts on here as opposed to once in a while a SN+ song that I like. Zephyr, AA, Doll for instance are very awesome songs and charts IMO on SN but not many else made much of an impression. I could list off a lot of very good ITG charts from each mix, even ITG1, which admittedly has a good amount of garbage too.

I could find you a ton of very cool ITG expert charts as I said. What I feel ITG really lacks for stepcharts are the sub-expert charts tend to be crap and
The doubles charts are indeed awful with a very few exceptions.

Anyway really I was just venting my frustration with this mix... Maybe I just need to play more of the unlocked charts and so forth. It would just be better for me if Bemani didn't have the monopoly to kill it for we more serious arrow stompers... Glad I was at least cleared up on a few things.

- ITG 3 (Hacked) ($1 / 3 songs)
- DDR SuperNova 2 (75¢ / 3 songs)

Went to go check out the newly installed SN2 last night. I was honestly quite impressed. Same price and same playable condition as it was previously as SN1. Many new songs, but I didn't see Pluto or Saturn or Uranus available.

Vid perspective

Pic 1

Pic 2

Apparently an AA on the 3rd song won't give the Extra Stage anymore..

Oh god you're one of them.  They who pick daikenkai and A every single set on extreme.

They really don't have that strong a monopoly, actually.  Andamiro has an indefinite royalties agreement to release similar games, and Konami's patent rights are actually pretty debatable; Roxor did some very stupid things that amounted to taunting them (new DDR content had shifted to home versions entirely, ITG was meant to fill the arcade gap, then Roxor went for a home version, and Konami finally filed paperwork in response to Roxor's now-direct competition, at least according to Foy), but in general, any company that actually asks Konami before selling a game, gets permission (NeonFM and Guitar Hero got 100% free licenses on Konami's patents from what I've heard; the Rock Band team never checked, and Konami eventually sued, which is hilarious when you consider that GH and RB were made by the same team, so they would have known that Konami wouldn't refuse the license).

Konami even helped build and distribute the Guitar Hero machines that we all know and hate, since they had experience with arcade machines and the GH team didn't (and asked for help) - the horrible quality of the machines was Betson's fault (they made the same mistakes for US DDRX machines, whereas Konami made the problem-free JP DDRX machines themselves).  Freely licensing your patents, allowing competitors to undercut your prices (Andamiro's [PIU and ITG] cabs are MUCH cheaper than DDR cabs) with those licenses, and helping competitors branch further into your market are very monopolistic behaviors apparently.

The only thing Konami is really guilty of is arrogance - their legal moves have always followed companies sidestepping the formality of asking Konami if it's okay to compete with them; Konami actually seems pretty sure that they won't lose the majority market share.

The planet songs need to be unlocked via a code you enter in on the main title screen.  Saturn is worth it.

The Extra Stage / Encore Extra Stage system is freakin' weird in SN2.  The Wikipedia entry for SN2 has all the details.  Until unlock codes are entered the default 3rd stage song you need to AA in order to go to the Extra stage is Unreal.  Have fun with that pos chart.

Why does everyone hate on Unreal's chart, it's like, representative of an ITG style chart if anything, hahaha

I might go today, if I do I'll enter the codes

Unreal reminds me more of a keyboard chart than an ITG chart

wait it reminds you more of an ITG chart than a keyboard chart?  What?  (I meant to say what I said, so don't respond to it seriously)

I went but I didn't write down the codes so I didn't unlock everything.

I hate daikenkai actually. A is ok I guess, I like AA better. Mostly on extreme I did random all nonstops and challenge courses. If I picked they were usually like rhythm and police, sakura, so deep, those kind of charts and theyre definitely good. And so is Xepher Best no-bar 10 to do on DDR IMO (and besides sakura and bag the only no bar 10 thats any fun to play at all anyway IMO). And cool song unlike practically every other 10.
No. double single double single double single double and left down upright   right down upleft over and over and over and over with that pattern.... its the same thing the whole song and its garbage and no fun to play, ITG doesnt have THAT shitty charts. Generic at times but not the kind of crap in that song. And its not a 9 either really Sorry I just hate that song from the first time I played it...

I gave SN2 another shot today. It's not THAT bad I guess, I like the marvelous timing and since it's got more songs than I had originally thought I'll prob play it as much as SN1 at least.

yeah just like a watered down Bouff.  double single etc etc though?  That's not how the chart goes at all...