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December 29, 2009, 03:22:41 PM - ORIGINAL POST -

So our community contains a TON of knowledge about DDR, Arcade machines, and the Bemani world in general. In an attempt to educate others (like Arcade managers) I had the idea to start an article collection that's publicly available.

The ideas I had so far are:

DDR Machine Maintenance
   Cleaning (detailed step by step, with pics)
   Business Card Trick  (detailed step by step, with pics)
   How to test if a sensor is reported bad (detailed step by step, with pics)

   How to run a DDR Tournament
   DDR Tournament Ideas / Types of tournaments
   How to run an air-hockey tournament
How to Play (New people who visit our arcades might not know what the features/settings are)
   Guitar Freaks

Arcade Tips
   Best tips and food suggestions for Acme Bowl
   Best tips and food suggestions for Power Play
   Best tips and food suggestions for Narrows Bowl

I'm open to any suggestions - and I'm going to need help from anyone who wants to contribute to this. It'll become a resource for bemani players all over, but especially our community, and the arcades in our area. Once it's created, I'll be sending it out to arcades that have DDR in case they need the information (say for repair techs who might not know why people are complaining about the 'bad sensors').

I think it'd be helpful if we helped each other with content. There isn't any fight for who gets to write an article, we'll all do these as much as we can.

So more ideas? Anyone want to start working on some of them?
DO NOT STEAL ANYONE ELSE's CONTENT! The more graphics and pictures the better too.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 09:51:26 PM by BLueSS »
Read December 29, 2009, 03:55:13 PM #1

I think enough of us have come up with tournament formats, and will continue to do so, such that it almost might work to have that be some kind of wiki.

If nobody else is interested, I'd be happy to write some basic tutorials on how to play various Bemani games. Smiley
Read December 29, 2009, 04:13:37 PM #2

I looked at trying to make it a wiki, and thought about that; but I can't integrate it into the site if it's a wiki. It'd have to be an external site on the domain, and we could use the wiki to work on the articles, and then update the articles based off the wiki.

But yeah, I don't know how to integrate a wiki with the site portal, so it won't be a wiki. I tried looking for solutions, but didn't get anything.

The articles also should be *tried and true* methods for whatever it is. Not "I had this idea once and I thought it'd be cool so I'll put it in".
Read December 29, 2009, 05:43:52 PM #3

I love this idea. Personally, I'm all for a separate wiki, because for years I've always wished there was a 1-stop website to get all kinds of DDR info. Anything from the ONI song glitches on Extreme to hacking an ITG2 dedicab.

I will try to get a step-by-step with pics on testing a pad's sensors and some other things related to our ITG2 machine. In the mean time, I'd like to suggest this post I recently made on "Proper DDR Etiquette".

« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 05:47:09 PM by Suko »
Read December 30, 2009, 05:32:19 AM #4

I'll write up something on Drummania if you want! I agree with the Wiki idea though; another community I'm part of, TetrisConcept has an absolutely insanely detailed Tetris information wiki. While I'm sure it'd be difficulty for us to get that comprehensive, we could at least have some basic information about Bemani stuff relevant to PNW players (and even more outside, as you said).
Read December 30, 2009, 12:51:10 PM #5

Kevin, that'd be good to have.

So it looks like I may have found a way to use a wiki and incorporate it. It'll take a bit before it's set up (unless it's fairly easy and I get time in the next few days) but we can still write some content for it to have ready when it does launch. Smiley
Read December 30, 2009, 01:36:16 PM #6

Kevin, did you realize that was your 1000th post? Congrats!
Read December 30, 2009, 03:04:08 PM #7

Hey, I didn't! There you go! Wow! Crazy...

Anyway, I'll get going on the guide, but I've got to take a few pictures of the interface which I'll need to do at Acme. Should be done within a week or two. I'll include a small section with some general advice, as well as a thorough explanation of everything to do with the mixes that we have available in the PNW (V3 and 10th, although there may be something else somewhere).
Read December 31, 2009, 12:28:42 AM #8

Once there's a wiki I can most certainly contribute everything I know. I have way too much time on my hands, this can give me something to do.
Read December 31, 2009, 11:25:18 AM #9

The articles also should be *tried and true* methods for whatever it is. Not "I had this idea once and I thought it'd be cool so I'll put it in".

Easy solution, <wiki>/<page>/sandbox.  <wiki>/<page> is for known information (backed up by multiple players' experience or citation from another reputable source) and the sandbox subpage is for posting singular experiences or your data point relevant to some unknown - for instance, I still don't think anyone has a firm formula for Pop'n 13 extra stage... Nykkel has managed it with as low as 87 (89? I don't remember), I've gotten it occasionally with 116, 119, and 123 (but none/few of the intermediates), and it seems to be guaranteed above 130, whereas other people can't get it with the same sub-130 scores but can with values that I've seen fail every time.  So people post their different results to <wiki>/Acme/Popn13/sandbox or <wiki>/Popn13/sandbox or<wiki>/AcmePopn/sandbox or whatever.

I'd say <wiki>/<arcade>/<machine>[/sandbox] is the best way to handle single machine info, and results consistent across arcades can then be thrown in <wiki>/machineInfo/<machine>[/<version>, if it's specific to one version of the game].  The front page can have a nice visible link saying "for arcade operators, go here for info specific to maintaining your machines" and link to the machineInfo index, then we make sure maintenance is the top section of each article.

At my office, we've been using trac for our internal info.  It might be a little high powered for what we want to do here (it's meant for development and has SVN integration, etc.), but it's a pretty user-friendly wiki (even has a WYSIWYG editing mode) with a built in bug-tracker with support for user comments, which may be useful if it can be linked to forum accounts or operator emails (instead of posting "ATTN: Bill" in the acme thread, you open a bug, with a description of the problem and a PM or email is shot off to Bill so he will see it next time he looks at the board or his email (or it could be linked to some sort of MVCO email and his techs see it too, all up to each person involved with this system... which will probably only be Bill [for his machines], Jon [for site stuff], and Kevin [for ITG hack related problems], but hey, it came free with the wiki), other players can add their own comments within that thread, Bill can post any relevant info and report it closed, it it's something very special (not just pad issues), the thread can be reopened if it doesn't go away, and then all the relevant info is sitting right there for Bill to see again.  Or there are other wiki systems, it's probably worth checking a handful of them out.
Read December 31, 2009, 12:07:45 PM #10

Trac is not php, SMF is php. The stuff on the internet for linking them is more work than what I currently have, which is the old wiki Jerrad and I setup that already links to the accounts here.  (Login with your /PNW account)

The wiki (while separate from the site) will be incorporated via articles that tinyportal provides. This allows the site to keep the same theme, links, SEO, and url scheme.

It's not totally setup yet, but a (bad) preview of what it will look like is:
It's HORRIBLY broken, but I'll be fixing that.

So with this system, any finalized, site published wiki pages will need to use external links (if they have any).

While it *is* a normal wiki, for site integration, it will not be.

Don't worry about that stuff, I can handle that. Just make some pages to get it started. Smiley

« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 03:23:34 PM by BLueSS »
Read December 31, 2009, 04:17:54 PM #11

Once you do get the wiki up and running, I would appreciate a very simple guide on how to submit new articles. I for one never got into wiki submitting and don't really know how to contribute to something like this.
Read December 31, 2009, 05:44:07 PM #12

The wiki is up right now. Smiley  (not a link so google doesn't index it)

It's very simple to edit a wik. Don't worry about formatting techniques, but if you click on any of those blank articles, it instantly goes to a page to start editing it.

Formatting techniques for wikis are here at:
Read December 31, 2009, 11:04:59 PM #13

I guess I'll start by writing up stuff on each game (engine diffs, hardware rundown, modes of play avail, glitches, exploits, game mechanics) I'll move on to individual chart strategies / writeup on timings and quirks / whatever. Think that'll help new players a lot more if they are armed with strats for each facet of the gameplay, no? Whenever I get a stable PC again I'll start.

« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 11:09:41 PM by Iori241 »
Read January 02, 2010, 01:05:21 AM #14

Can somebody please login and edit the wiki to make sure the permissions are setup correctly?
Read January 02, 2010, 02:10:59 PM #15

I can't login using the same username and password I have at this site...

Log in / create account

From PNWBemani Wiki
Login error:
Incorrect password entered. Please try again.
Read January 02, 2010, 02:17:19 PM #16

Suko, try again.
Read January 02, 2010, 10:22:50 PM #17

K, I could successfully log in and was able to create an article.

Edit: Make that two articles. I'm not awesome with wikis, so pardon my dust. I tried to make a subcategory for "techniques", but couldn't find out how to create subcategories. I have a feeling I'll be relying on some other people to clean up after me. However, I hope to contribute a lot of my knowledge to this wiki.

« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 12:08:28 AM by Suko »
Read January 03, 2010, 02:36:34 AM #18

Suko, those are great! Cheesy   

I'm not sure how to create sub-categories on the wiki either, but I can create them manually when I integrate them as articles on the site; so we don't need to worry about them on the wiki. The wiki formatting will be more for our internal use and benefit.

I'll be working on the integration formatting as soon as I can post them on the site as soon as possible.
Read January 03, 2010, 03:31:46 PM #19

Here's how the final articles look on the site.   Grin

I'm working on tweaking the urls to add categories in there.
Read January 03, 2010, 05:16:30 PM #20

Those articles are really good and thorough!

I don't want to stir up trouble with this question, so please take it solely as a curiosity inquiry. If somebody disagrees with something in an article, or believes it to be subjective, what are the rules for editing without coming off like a contrary jackass?

Read January 03, 2010, 08:48:16 PM #21

Wikipedia has an article on how to write in a Neutral point of view, but obviously there are going to be some articles here that are heavily opinionated.

Editing should be done one of the following ways:
1) Edit their statement to include both their point of view, and yours
2) Or, provide a paragraph after there's with your different point of view (possibly saying "while some prefer 'x' others prefer 'y' instead"

Please do not delete anything we've written here, just because you disagree with it. If something needs to be deleted because it's flat out wrong, either talk to the person who said it or PM me about it. If anyone's caught just deleting stuff to put their own opinion in, I'll ban you from editing any articles (unless you pm me with a new article, I'll put it up for you).

Here an example and how to handle it.

Say the quote below is in an article:
ITG is superior to DDR because it has features DDR never implemented and has a better song selection.

Obviously there are going to be people that agree and disagree with that statement. If we get something like that in an article, the best way to handle it is to edit it to say
Both ITG and DDR are popular dancing games. People prefer DDR because x, y, and z; while some prefer ITG because of a, b, and c.

Most our articles aren't appropriate for [Citation Needed] tags, because our opinions are the citations. Just edit the articles to include both opinions.

Do you have another example I could clarify, or is this good enough?

« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 08:50:21 PM by BLueSS »
Read January 03, 2010, 09:59:19 PM #22

Nah, you've clarified it fairly well. Smiley I just didn't want to risk pissing someone off if, in the future, I decided to edit their article because I felt that it wasn't impartial.

BTW - for me, the part of the etiquette article that mentions that the best players don't stomp comes off as being biased, because I have met some DDR players who can AAA most of the game and DO do this - the difference is whether someone plays by visual or aural sync, not how good they are. For players who play "by ear," hearing themselves relative to the music is how they make sure they're doing it right, and so hitting the panels loudly (and this CAN be done without damaging the machine) is important for them. This isn't to criticize or anything, just to give an example for Jon. Smiley
Read January 03, 2010, 10:05:43 PM #23

So yeah, an easy edit would be "good players can fall into two categories - those who play be ear and don't stomp, and those who stomp and use visual timing."

...except written better than this quick example.

For anyone who writes an article: PLEASE do not be offended by anyone editing your article. It means they actually read it and wanted to add to it. Smiley
Read January 03, 2010, 11:11:25 PM #24

Blah blah blah. I'm offended because u edit mah article...I will never help u again!

In all seriousness, I suggest combining DDR and ITG under a "four panel dancing game" category. Most of my suggestions and techniques I have work equally well for DDR and ITG (or any future games that are yet to be release, like iDance.

Just my 2-cents.

FYI: On Jan 4th @ 9:39 AM, I cannot access the login page on the wiki. It finishes loading but doesn't display anything.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 11:32:09 AM by Suko »
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