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Laura
May 22, 2009, 12:43:19 PM - ORIGINAL POST -

In order to combat the divisiveness that seems to exist between the "hardcore ITG" crowd and the "PA" and "just for fun" DDR crowds, I bring the latter group a silly, fun tournament!

WHAT: Be In My Paradise (lol get it) DDR Extreme tournament

WHEN: Saturday, 6/27/09, at noon.

WHERE: http://www.bowlparadise.net/ / 12505 Pacific Avenue S., Tacoma, WA

ENTRY FEE: $5.00

RULES:

16 player single elimination - Tennis style matches are longer than your standard matches, so it needs to be single elim if 16 players show up. If only eight or fewer players show up, we can revise this to be eight player double elim very easily.

Tennis style matches - The win condition for a tennis style match is that you need to play AT LEAST three songs against your opponent, and you must be at least two wins ahead of them. Best two out of three, then, is not a win YET, but best three out of four is. Same with best three out of five, six out of ten, etc etc. Due to the tennis style format, this tournament needs to be no more than sixteen players, or it will take all day! Low seed picks either the side they want or first song. The second song will be picked by the next player. At this point, each subsequent song will be chosen by the player who lost the immediately previous song until the match has ended. If a song is a tie, the player who selected longest ago gets next selection.

Failing your own song - If you pick it, you pass it. If you don't, you automatically lose the song regardless of your opponent.

Forfeiture: Players confronted with a particularly challenging song will be allowed to forfeit the song with no effect on the match (unless, by forfeiture, you're giving your opponent the final point they need to win the match.) Once a player forfeits, you HAVE to stick with your song choice and play that song. Because of this, I encourage all players to talk to each other to make any legitimate health concerns known. Nobody is an ass for picking HVAM if they didn't know the guy they're playing has a bad knee. "I'm allergic to bad music" is not a health concern, and will probably get you The Reflex or Crash. You are better off including your opponent in the song choice if you want to play a 10.

Asshat rule: There will be no difficulty caps in the traditional sense, HOWEVER I am enforcing a no asshole rule by capping LITERALLY - while all difficulties are permissible in this tournament, if you do something that is clearly mean spirited, like pick a 10 against a person you know to have physical limitations (athsma, GERD, has only been playing a week), or exploit factors that have nothing to do with playing ability (picking songs with all freezes when you suspect the other player's side is dropping them, taking note that an arrow might be sticking, and thus playing songs that are all stomps on that arrow), you will be forced to wear a comedically large hat ("the asshat") while you play the rest of the round, so that people know that you were an asshat. If the hat comes off, you lose the song. This is both in the spirit of fun and games, and to make sure that people aren't jerks.

Prizes: The prize pool will be split among the top four players as follows: 1st - 50% 2nd - 25% 3rd - 15% 4th- 10%. Additionally, there will be other fun prizes to be revealed day of!

New players/consolation prizes: Last place player will receive a "lightly used" copy of ITG home from my and my husband's "consolidated" collection to encourage new community members to participate.

Qualifiers: Each player who enters this tournament, as well as any and all spectators who wish to participate, should write a qualifier down on an index card which will be cut in half (the hot dog way) (will be provided) and toss it into the hat at the beginning of the tournament. When it is time to qualify, I will draw a suggestion out of the hat at random, and that will be the qualifier, unless the random choice was clearly a joke (5.1.1. light, MaxX Unlimited, etc etc.) Please refrain from suggesting "joke" songs unless they have some actual merit. If a player wishes, they can enter a song on left, right, or mirror, but please no other mods (sudden, flat, boost, etc etc). If the person whose chart is picked as the qualifier is playing in the tournament, they have to go first - so please write your name on the piece of index card.

Scoring: Perfects = 2, Greats = 1, nothing else = anything. Pad arbitration will take place on a case by case basis IF any pad errors would change the outcome of the match. If you get 2 pad misses and 30 greats, and the guy you played against AAA'd the song, no redo for you.  

Modification of rules rule: THESE ARE THE FINAL RULES unless something goes seriously wrong day of.

Feel free to suggest additions/alternatives to the rules. However, if the suggestions lead to drama, they will be respectfully disregarded. I'm all ears otherwise, though! Cheesy

EDIT: Forgot to address ties in the rules. Whoops. Tongue
EDIT 2: Grammar. I'm not telling you WHAT grammar because, as a former English major, I'm embarrassed.
EDIT 3: I NEED PLAYER INPUT. Would you prefer a 10 dollar entry fee and a much larger prize pool, or a 5 dollar entry fee, so you have less to lose?
EDIT 4: Changed the rules in regards to song forfeiture.
EDIT 5: Added Paradise's physical address to the thread.
EDIT 6: Added modification of rules rule.
EDIT 7: Modified qualifiers rule. PLEASE READ!
EDIT 8: Added official "entry fee."
EDIT 9: Modified modification of rules, modified qualifier rules, added scoring. HAVE FUN GUYS! Cheesy

« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 11:46:46 AM by BLueSS »
 
DMN
Read May 24, 2009, 09:47:24 PM #51

Isn't that a little young to lose your FC virginity? Cheesy

KEVIN, YOU HIJACKED THE THREAD! :O

Something ontopic: Umm... Laura, the proposed changes if there are more people sounds ok, although if you lose the first round, that's 5 bucks for 3 (maybe 2) songs... and you probably won't feel too good about it. Tongue

This is an absurd idea, but how about if we have to go 32, the winners of each round have to pay the $5 entry fee? That way, people who lose early on aren't felt cheated.

It's a little off the cuff, but I thought I'd propose it all the same.
 
BLueSS
Read May 24, 2009, 10:30:20 PM #52

I think that's fair, reasonable, and that it would probably work well.
 
Laura
Read May 24, 2009, 11:16:17 PM #53

You know, that's not a bad idea... The other thing that's a possibility is to just let 32 people seed and only take the best sixteen. Basically, do we want to give our first matches away for free? I think the free rounds might give people who don't normally participate a reason to do so though. Smiley
 
ancsik
Read May 25, 2009, 12:56:54 AM #54

There was a player at my high school (friend of Jerrad's) who went to a 33 person Narrows tourney, seeded last, and lost his entry fee as the only person who didn't land in the brackets, he pretty much quit the game that day (I never saw of heard of him playing again).  I doubt the money had much to do with him quitting, but it still added insult to injury.  So making it a little less of a blow to get knocked out early (by not losing your money) might be nice.
 
discovolante
Read May 25, 2009, 12:00:22 PM #55

Oh you guys.

I paid $15 dollars for an ITG tournament and $15 for a DDR tournament, both single elimination for the first two rounds, and lost in the second round of both.

So PLEASE only make the people who get past the first round pay. Although, I think we should also probably bump the entrance fee up a bit since less people will be paying. Maybe $10? Or we could have it so that you pay more the more rounds you advance, turning it all into a high-stakes gambling tournament! (please don't take this seriously)
 
Laura
Read May 25, 2009, 01:08:17 PM #56

The reason the entry fee is so low is that lots of the prizes/money are coming straight out of community members' pockets, as a means of encouraging attendance. The low entry fee is also a means of encouraging attendance. Smiley

I think what we've decided is that we're going to do a 32 player bracket, where the first matches are best 2/3 single elim, like a traditional tourney, but nobody pays until we get to the 16 player tennis matches.
 
ChilliumBromide
Read May 25, 2009, 04:21:36 PM #57

I'd say just run the qualifier down to the top 8 if there are more than 16 people there.  I don't know what kind of time restraints we're looking at, but tennis matches can be LONG matches if people are close, and if 24 people (just throwing a number between 16 and 32 out there) show up, that's a half hour for qualifiers, assuming there are always two people on the pads and it goes quickly and smoothly, which is enough time for 3-5 matches.  If we have 6 or 7 hours to do this, then qualifying to 16 would be fine.  Five hours or less and you'll want to review the math.

Also, I'd advise seeding to prevent close matches early in the tournament, to make it more feasible to determine roughly how long the tournament would last.  Whereas typically you'd put 8th vs. 9th and 5th vs. 4th, I'd instead put 8th vs. 13th or 12th and 4th vs. 8th.

Although these concerns would be pretty arbitrary if we have more than 8 hours or so to run the tournament.  If that's the case, then time is UNLIKELY to be an issue as long as we don't do a 16-person round robin or something crazy like that.
 
BLueSS
Read May 25, 2009, 06:37:34 PM #58

Or we could have it so that you pay more the more rounds you advance, turning it all into a high-stakes gambling tournament! (please don't take this seriously)
I actually thought through what this would look like, and once a contestant reached a point to where he thinks he will lose, there is little motivation for him to pay and then lose again. It'd work if all the players were on the same level, but if anyone was weaker, it wouldn't work very well because people qould just quit instead of paying for the next round.
 
Laura
Read May 26, 2009, 09:28:25 AM #59

I just sent Bill a PM asking him what kind of time constraints we have. Depending on that, we can further discuss alternate bracketing and seeding options. Smiley

Also, depending on how long this takes - would a couple of you guys be interested in an afterparty at our place? I figure, if we're having people come from out of town, we might as well party with them a bit. Depending on how tired we all are after this, I'd almost consider hosting some kind of "all nighter" event with Bemani and free caffeinated beverages. Smiley

 
Suko
Read May 26, 2009, 10:06:38 AM #60

Did I miss something? It sounds like there's talk of removing the qualifier song?

I don't have much input on this tournament yet, but NOT having a qualifier would (IMO) be a big mistake. I won't waste everyone's time writing a long post about why we need it, but if you truly don't understand the enormous benefit a qualifier can do for a tournament, then I'll be happy to share it.

Long story short; Keep the qualifier, then you can find out who the top 16 participants will be, and no one has to spend their $5 entry fee to get knocked out before even playing a full set.
 
Laura
Read May 26, 2009, 10:14:20 AM #61

Not removing the qualifier for sure!!

The talk is of whether or not to add a second round so that 32 players can qualify, enter, and play a set, and whether or not to charge for that set. Smiley It's basically a question of time - if people are coming from out of state for this (they are), I want to make sure the drive is worth their while; if we have 32 people, we shouldn't just let half of them qualify and immediately get thrown out. I basically want to give low seeds a chance to fight their way into the actual bracket.

EDIT: Just heard back from Bill; the only time constraint we are under is the fact that Paradise closes at midnight. So, as long as this is not a >12 hour tournament, we can do whatever we want.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 01:37:07 PM by Laura »
 
ChilliumBromide
Read May 26, 2009, 11:26:03 PM #62

I'd be hella down for an afterparty at your place...it's not like I'd be going home right after the tournament anyway.

With 12 hours to work with, I'd say just go with double elim with <16 people and single elim with >16 people, and not really worry about it beyond that (besides capping at 32).
 
BLueSS
Read May 27, 2009, 11:50:30 AM #63

...it also depends on how long people can actually stay to participate in the tournament.
 
Laura
Read May 27, 2009, 11:57:49 AM #64

I mean, I'm going under the ASSUMPTION that if anyone signs up for a DDR tournament, they know what they're getting into and don't have to rush off to somewhere. That's kind of all you can do as an organizer. If anyone has any terrible time conflicts, feel free to post them here and I'll factor that too, but in all honesty, I kinda saw this as being a fun, all day hangout event anyway. I guess I'll pose the question though: If this tournament is long, will you get mad/frustrated and leave? Tongue
 
ancsik
Read May 27, 2009, 01:23:41 PM #65

We can never know just how long it will really take, but it's always kind of been accepted that you need to put aside the whole day for a big tournament.  Our more recent ones have been quick because they were small, but LG4 was tentatively scheduled for something like 12 hours and used every minute of it.  A new format makes estimates tough, but it is the player's responsibility when entering to consider if they have conflicts that would keep them from staying until the finals should they make it that far.  I don't mean to be cold about it, but it is a simple fact that most of us will be clearing our schedule for this.
 
Suko
Read May 27, 2009, 01:23:51 PM #66

No. As long as it stays on the weekend I don't mind chillin' around an arcade all day long. Plus, it'll give my DS and PSP some long-needed lovin'.

EDIT: Why the hell is everyone so young and/or I'm so old? I dun get it...
 
Laura
Read May 27, 2009, 01:42:40 PM #67

You're not THAT old...

Yeah, I don't want to be cold about it either; I'd most certainly change the format if it were an issue for enough people. I just never got the feeling it would be, and if it's not, why change it? This is where you come in, guys!
 
Keby
Read May 27, 2009, 09:28:36 PM #68

No. As long as it stays on the weekend I don't mind chillin' around an arcade all day long. Plus, it'll give my DS and PSP some long-needed lovin'.

EDIT: Why the hell is everyone so young and/or I'm so old? I dun get it...

It's because I assume you started DDR back in the golden days of 1998 when you were in highschool? college?

heck I started in 2002 when I was in seventh grade.
Your not old per say, but in DDR years. Your old Grin

Have fun with this guys, I really wish I could come.
Hope everything goes well!
 
Laura
Read May 28, 2009, 03:01:54 PM #69

So, I've talked a lot about this with a lot of people, and basically, we've come to the conclusion that there are two ways this tournament can be run:

1. We have a 4-6 hour 16 player single elim event, wherein anyone else who comes will have to play other things we'll have going, but it's quick so we can then all go to dinner and an afterparty, or

2. We have an 8-12 hour 32 player single elim event, wherein everyone gets to play for a little while BUT we may all be at Paradise until 9 PM.

Personally, I think 6 hours is a sweet spot for a tournament, but what do you guys think?
 
Suko
Read May 28, 2009, 03:47:46 PM #70

Do you have an idea of how many players will be participating?

I suggest waiting until the week before the tourny and seeing how many people sound like they'll be going. If the numbers low, keep it dbl elimination. If it's high, go for single.

I personally prefer dbl elimination all the way, but then again, I'm not too concerned about placing within the top 16 for qualifiers.
 
Laura
Read May 28, 2009, 04:29:26 PM #71

Unfortunately, unless we have 8 or fewer players (which, it appears, is not even close to happening), double elimination with a tennis style format is simply not possible. Sixteen player double elim would still take from approximately open until close, which is what I'm hesitant about considering even with a full 32 player bracket.

Right now, about 20 people have expressed interest, but as the event draws near, it could be more or less. I want to give people enough advance notice such that they don't end up disappointed - if I drove from Portland only to qualify last and not get to enter, that would be pretty terrible.
 
Suko
Read May 28, 2009, 04:43:53 PM #72

Ooooooooooohhh, Tennis style. I forgot. Well if that's the case then I suppose singles is fine. As long as it's singles + tennis style I think I'd be cool with that.
 
ancsik
Read May 28, 2009, 10:54:17 PM #73

The tennis format should be set up in such a way as to keep you from getting screwed by a single unlucky song, which is a lot of the justification for using double elim.  Should make upsets and close matches all the more impressive, too.

In the 4 person, round robin, tennis style, Portland tournament where we got the idea, we had a round go to 7 songs (easily could've gone longer if I didn't make a gamble on endurance play, which wore both of us down for a few songs, but me less so) and only one or two of the 6 ended after the minimum three.  Since a lot of people end up out after only 4 songs in double elim, I think that balances out fairly well.
 
ChilliumBromide
Read June 06, 2009, 09:29:13 PM #74

Are speed mods allowed on the qualifier?
 
Laura
Read June 06, 2009, 09:49:11 PM #75

As in, will you be allowed to play your song with speed mods, or as in, can you specify speed mods that are required for the other player when you suggest a qualifier?

I am of the opinion that speed mods, bar, etc etc are always allowed - forcing people to play 1, 2, or 8 x are all equally unfair imho.
 
 
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