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January 10, 2011, 01:39:49 PM - ORIGINAL POST -

After all the banter regarding the recent ITG tournament I had to satiate my curiosity by asking this question.

Why doesn't anyone play the Hard charts?

Is it just not intense enough for you? Is it too easy? What's the deal?

I'm with Laura when she says that hard charts are no better or worse written than the expert charts. I've heard people saying it for years; "Hard charts are poorly written and unoriginal". To that I say bullocks! Most people who say this only play Expert anyways. How can you claim these things when you hardly, if ever play Hard charts? As many know, I play both Hard and Expert regularly (I probably play more Hard than anyone else on these forums) and I can definitely confirm Ansick's statement that both difficulties have good and bad charts.

So, speak up people. Why the hate for Hard charts?
Read January 10, 2011, 05:33:20 PM #1

If we're talking about DDR hard charts, I have no idea.

If we're talking about ITG, it's because they didn't write good hard charts. Wink
Read January 11, 2011, 04:12:53 AM #2

It really comes down to ITG stock charts seemingly having the most effort put into them on Expert.  Most ITG hard charts are unimaginative and don't really have any real 'flow' to them in relation to the song like the Expert charts seem to.  It's like older DDR 7s vs 9s.  Comparing a chart like Look to the Sky vs something like So Deep or Stay is no comparison.
Read January 11, 2011, 07:07:06 AM #3

Is it just not intense enough for you? Is it too easy?
Personally when I go to Acme, that's the reason, yeah. I'm typically planning to spend around $6 on the ITG3 cab after warming up on DDR, and it's rare for me to pick songs under 9-block difficulty.

So I'm basically trying to condense my "electronic workout" into a select few choices for maxing out my physical capacity at that time. ^^
If the machine was on freeplay or just 25ยข per play, I suspect that I'd be much more carefree about my song choice and go over every medium/hard/expert chart in sections over a period of visits.. But I'm still setting aside tuition budget, yada yada.

And no, I don't hate the Hard charts. I can distinctly recall when I first downloaded the ITG simfiles for Stepmania and couldn't pass hardly any of the 9-footers. So I spent some time going through the medium and hard charts that I actually could pass and grew to prefer a few of them over their Expert counterparts.
Just like in DDR, there are some oldies that are well under 9-foot difficulty that I can't resist revisiting on occasion. I may not be the best evaluator of chart originality, but I felt about half of the hard ITG charts each had their own positive appeal.

[always hated the Tribal Style hard chart though, lol]
Read January 11, 2011, 02:14:16 PM #4

When it comes to hard on DDR (aka Heavy difficulty), I have absolutely no problem with it as it's the hardest difficulty. Charts such as the Max series, So Deep, Holic, Era, Paranoia-Respect- and Paranoia Survivor have well put together charts.

Our friend Dr.Z brings up a valid point, I too would rather put my money into a set of ITG (typically 2 10-12's, and the middle song being a cooldown 9-10) than into the DDR machine where the most difficult I can go is a 10. It's nothing personal against DDR being only up to 10 footers. But at home with my ignition pads and Ps2 (with hard foam) I can play any of those songs (ddr max-supernova 2 wise). So if i wanted to practice such, I'd do it at home. Any DDR song, even the toughest, aren't compromised by the ignition pad's performance. I could do the same with some songs on ITG1 for ps2, but those songs get to a point im more comfortable with arcade pad precision. (passing expert delirium on my ignition pad wasn't the most fun with the slipping, or anything above the 10s). Also my mentality when hitting ACME is to go big, not to practice what I do at home, but all of us work hard for our money, I feel that my feet should do the same at acme Wink

As far as ITG itself, Hard was beneficial when i began transferring from DDR-ITG (infection, monolith, etc.) ItG songs are indeed longer with equivalent or higher intensity than DDR, so i definitely am glad Hard Charts were available during my transition in 05/06.

There is some sort of mental crisis/confidence I had knowing there was a higher difficulty on ITG. Heavy on DDR was as high as it went, and back then i was content with that difficulty, never was I content playing standard (at the time i played it, it was called "trick"), I had to keep moving up until i could do every DDR heavy song. Same with ItG, most of the hard ItG charts resemble heavy ddr charts. I could not stick with ItG hard for more than a few sets because from my perspective, expert was where the songs steps are in full potential (same how i saw heavy on ddr), and I could not be content on ItG hard knowing a higher ground existed. Thus starting my pursuit during the transition.

Finally, where I am at today, I have appreciation for Hard Charts, and would definitely see my friends who just got DDR follow the same path I do with ItG hard when transitioning before going to expert. I'll still play DDR heavy, but on ItG i'll swear by expert.

Countless times I been told how well the ItG expert charts go with a song's melody/rhythm/intensity. (Gargoyle, Hyper Hyper, Lucky, millions of others). Granted, hard has some too (infection etc.), but in a way yes, it does not feel intense enough and is a bit too easy for me, even if it's the hard chart 11's. I guess my mind and soul are most content knowing that there isn't a higher plateau for me to conquer, even though i have plenty work to do to conquer 13's+, with expert I feel I'm on the highest floor, and not the staircase/elevator. If expert charts were poorly written, and I felt they didn't respect the song, I'd feel differently, but thankfully, to me they are very well written. That is not to disrespect Hard or anything at all, alot of it is personal perception, and i'm sure a good deal of people see Hard as their niche or at least differently than I do, I don't have a single problem with that.

At least those are my feelings when it comes to hard. Good discussion topic thread, im interested in seeing how everyone feels on it Smiley

« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 02:20:21 PM by neempoppa »
Read January 11, 2011, 08:44:47 PM #5

For me, it mostly comes down to that I'm paying for my workout. If I'm playing ITG to just have fun, then sometimes I'll play marathon courses or hard charts, but for the most part I don't have enough money or time to incorporate those as well.

I do think that there aren't a lot of good hard charts, but I remember those days when I couldn't do anything harder and I still have a couple favorites. I'll still play ones like mouth or pick me up and tango occasionally because they're still so much darn fun to me.
Read January 11, 2011, 10:24:34 PM #6

I play because I love the game.

I might go to ACME and play $20 of 9's
I might play 2 9's then just 12's for the rest of the day
I might mix it up. I love dance games and what they do. Playing for a workout tends to be on the back of my mind whenever I think about this stuff because my love of dance games is far higher than my drive to get a workout.

Sometimes I'll play 7's on ITG for 3 hours No bar, because once again. I love the game. And that's that. Hard charts are good, hard charts are bad, whatever. I'll play them all.
Read January 11, 2011, 10:35:09 PM #7

I love the game. And that's that. Hard charts are good, hard charts are bad, whatever. I'll play them all.
I <3 Keby
Read January 14, 2011, 05:00:22 PM #8

I'm guessing it's because people just like stomping to melody rather than stomping to the beat (hah).

I personally feel that I should push myself when I play in order to get my money's worth. But in all honesty if the local machines were cheaper, I probably would play on hard for a while as opposed to jumping straight into expert.
At home I do enjoy playing lower level expert charts, I'm not sure why I don't play hard charts at home.
I mean on stepmania, at least. Haven't played DDR in a while thanks to having my pad in the sleepout thanks to a hollow floor inside. But if I play DDR I'll happily play heavy for hours.
Hell, I'd play difficult if I could dance for real and make it interesting for myself.

I guess people just like to be constantly moving. Some hard or difficult charts don't have that.
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