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Poll: Speed Mods
(Voting closed: April 27, 2007, 09:21:08 AM)
Poll Results Speed Mods
Love them -  13 (76.5%)
Hate them -  4 (23.5%)
Total Voters: 13
 
Pages: 1 [2] 3
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pepsikat
April 27, 2007, 09:21:08 AM - ORIGINAL POST -

Maybe I'm a plain vanilla DDR player but I never tried a speed mod until I finally saw someone use one last week.  The song looked light in steps so I went home and checked.  I didn't know using a speed mod reduced the overall steps in a song.  It makes sense after knowing but I didn't think it would.  Isn't that kind of like cheating?

I was playing at Sunset Bowling last night and some kids only played heavy's with speed mods and I couldn't help but think that was really weak.


Discuss  :shock:
 
manyminimoos
Read April 30, 2007, 04:16:13 PM #26

I voted hate.  

All they do is make people bitch about something useless. If they had never been implemented in any similar game ever, all people would do is wonder what would happen if arrows went faster or slower and then implement them in sims.  The fact that there are multiple implementations of speed mods (increments like IIDX vs DDR vs ITG or scroll rate like GF/DM vs everything else) just makes this worse.  

As far as "cheating"
In DDR, no mods is easy enough to where anyone can learn how to be just as good at 1x as "with their favorite mods."  I can't say the same for IIDX, and I'm weary of saying it for ITG -- it's mostly a matter of the RAM in your brain, so to say.  You can only process so much, and this differs for everyone (see pickles ** euphoria 1x or that ganymede another HS0 pass video).  But anyway with DDR, save maybe the very densest/weirdest songs, referring to ONLY bag and i'll make love to you, then I would say speed mods make more difference.

Further more, I think high speed reading is far more impressive than 1x reading.  Speed mods are underrated in a sense; ask a 1x player (who won't yell at you for mods) to see what they think of mod usage; chances are they'd think you're really good.
 
Peaches
Read April 30, 2007, 07:14:29 PM #27

Quote from: "ancsik"
Quote from: "Peaches"
Have you ever heard a song that actually plays at 200 BPM?  It sounds awful, just a bunch of garbled quick beats.  Typical DDR songs (Brilliant 2 U for instance) are not going to be around 130-160 BPM.

If they didn't double the BPM then the only stuff people would want to play on is SPeedcore because nothing would be going up to 150 BPM.


Listen to a 50-70 bpm song (a real one, like the few ballads between DDR and IIDX and not bag, which Konami changed to 130 for IIDX) and then to something rated in the 120-130 range (a lot of DDR/ITG stuff), you may notice that the sounds occur twice as fast in the song rated twice as fast.  Be in my Paradise has 16th note runs if you claim it to be 63 BPM, halving that value so that a song twice as fast (the 120-130 range) fits with what you just said would make those into 32nd note runs, which are extremely uncommon in music from the sheet music I've seen.  Beats per minute follows the quarter notes and most songs in DDR reflect this on heavy; the charts are based around 8th notes with few rests exceeding one beat and only occasional 16th note work (normally.... So Deep and Grad Cyber are obvious exceptions).  There's music up in the higher range that isn't speedcore, though it is a little less common than DDR would have you believe.

As for speedmods being cheating or not... it really is a just tradeoff between spacing and time on the screen for the arrows.  Yeah, it ruins bag (most people still learn to 1x it at some point), but that's Konami's fault for rating songs independently of speed mods after they'd been implemented.  Having the arrow speed proportional to BPM was a terrible move, since it actually makes the faster 9's (the 170-200 range) easier to time than those slow songs that ended up as 6's and 7's on 1x for a lot of people...  I really prefer GFDM's style of having the speed be consistant and making the player figure out the timing on his own.  Also, anyone who claims that speed mods are unnecessary or cheating hasn't played much IIDX (where it's even encouraged by having the option menu appear as soon as you put money in and giving it a useful spread of multipliers [jumping from 2x to 3x doesn't give a huge dead zone, but the jump from 3x to 5x makes the 110-130 range terrible for me and I'm sure others have their own ranges like that], rather than the hidden option menu [and arrow codes, pre-Max] in DDR).


An excellent point, seeing as my post was being a little extreme claiming all songs to have  non-native BPM, you also seem to know more about music than I do.
 
BLueSS
Read April 30, 2007, 11:47:53 PM #28

Quote from: "manyminimoos"
I voted hate.  

All they do is make people bitch about something useless. If they had never been implemented in any similar game ever, all people would do is wonder what would happen if arrows went faster or slower and then implement them in sims.  The fact that there are multiple implementations of speed mods (increments like IIDX vs DDR vs ITG or scroll rate like GF/DM vs everything else) just makes this worse.


But without speed mods you wouldn't have been able to make your post... :shrug:
 
manyminimoos
Read May 01, 2007, 11:29:07 AM #29

I thought you ban people for philosophical/rhetorical posts.  Way to go.
 
pantsu
Read May 01, 2007, 11:37:40 AM #30

i like speed mods... i have the need... the need the speed!!!! >Smiley
 
BLueSS
Read May 01, 2007, 03:40:52 PM #31

Quote from: "manyminimoos"
I thought you ban people for philosophical/rhetorical posts.  Way to go.

Ban people for making those types of post?

or Banned people from making those types of posts?
 
zeppy_gorrila
Read May 01, 2007, 06:00:43 PM #32

Quote from: "manyminimoos"
I thought you ban people for philosophical/rhetorical posts.  Way to go.
Naw, the "Furer" did. not bluess.
 
ChilliumBromide
Read May 01, 2007, 06:57:52 PM #33

Quote from: "Diggit_6"
nor do I...
x2 is my favorite speed mod. use it on every song below 225 BPM, and just x1 the faster stuff. I'm a x1, x2, or x4 type of guy, can't stand x3 or x1.5, cuz the arrows get spaced weird. BUt speed mods can both make a song easier (try bag on x3. now try it how it was MEANT to be played on x1. see?) but it can also make songs harded (Max 300 on x5 plz!)
oh that's another point I want to make. THe only time when using speed mds is cheating, is WHEN YOU ARE PLAYING BAG ON HEAVY! Totally defeats the purpose of the songs, and turns it into a 9 footer IMO.
Bag's meant to be played x1/shuffle/dark/flat ;P

I fucking ROFLd at the "I'll Make Love to You" part. xD

P.S.
Speed mods = drug.
Seriously, speed mods help me energise my brain; my brain feels much better reading a chart between 250 and 450 than outside that range, and so I can focus that added brain energy on keeping my balance (those who know me probably notice that I barrape above 480), doing crossovers, breathing regularly, stepping with an appropriate amount of force with the most appropriate part of my foot, and, of course, timing.
 
pantsu
Read May 02, 2007, 09:31:37 AM #34

no... 1x sudden shuffle flat dark Smiley
i passed it once but i was really lucky...
 
Smoke
Read May 03, 2007, 01:37:32 PM #35

ITG is understandable; but I'd like to see someone do Summer Speedy Mix or Hardcore of the North w/o speed mods.

Now here, those goth DDR players use ridiculous speed mods like x2 boost, on 6 footers.
-_-;;
 
ShadowXOR
Read May 14, 2007, 12:53:35 AM #36

I play on 1x only, speed mods just make things easier and I prefer to raise my skill level, rather than lowering the game's difficulty.
 
NSX
Read May 14, 2007, 08:33:29 AM #37

Heres a thought, if your good on 3x, then you jump to 1x and you do way horrible than when your on 3x, what would you do? play on 3x forever? or master 1x? for example, if your going to play Oni (challenge) you can only play on 1x and if you choose a course with mods then thats a different story.. but yeah, Oni requires 1x skills, it also makes your 1x skill better. once your good with 1x, then when you go back to 3x, it'll be no problem, you can play 1x 2x or 3x... for me, i challenge myself by playing something i havent mastered, like 1x. playing 3x is to easy, so thats why i switch from 1x and 3x... it makes it fun. Cheesy
 
The Wise Fool
Read May 14, 2007, 10:02:20 PM #38

UGH THE X COMES BEFORE THE NUMBER. 1X IS WRONG. X1 IS RIGHT. EXCEPT IN PIU BUT THAT DOESN'T COUNT.

GET IT RIGHT.
 
ShadowXOR
Read May 14, 2007, 11:16:23 PM #39

Quote from: "The Wise Fool"
UGH THE X COMES BEFORE THE NUMBER. 1X IS WRONG. X1 IS RIGHT. EXCEPT IN PIU BUT THAT DOESN'T COUNT.

GET IT RIGHT.


1x
 
NSX
Read May 14, 2007, 11:44:46 PM #40

hehe...  woopsy, you got the point... :lol:
 
BLueSS
Read May 14, 2007, 11:48:29 PM #41

Zach, you've got it backwards.
 
pantsu
Read May 15, 2007, 11:16:12 AM #42

x=times
1times the speed
1x
etc
 
Diggit_6
Read May 15, 2007, 05:04:01 PM #43

k, play DDR, open up the mod menu, does it say 1x or x1? 1.5x, or x1.5
there. finished.
also, think of it this way, instead of 1times the speed of the song, you could do BPMx1 BPMx1.5, BPMx2 etc. The BPM of the song is implied, it just multiplies by two, not the other way around.
 
The Wise Fool
Read May 15, 2007, 05:13:07 PM #44

Quote from: "Diggit_6"
k, play DDR, open up the mod menu, does it say 1x or x1? 1.5x, or x1.5
there. finished.
also, think of it this way, instead of 1times the speed of the song, you could do BPMx1 BPMx1.5, BPMx2 etc. The BPM of the song is implied, it just multiplies by two, not the other way around.

Exactly. Both DDR and ITG call it x1, not 1x.
 
manyminimoos
Read May 17, 2007, 11:05:53 AM #45

see what I mean about bitching and whining about nothing?
 
BLueSS
Read May 17, 2007, 12:10:09 PM #46

Except I really doubt we are taking this discussion about whether it's 1x or x1 seriously.

You're trying to make this, "See, you guys are whining, I'm right," argument when this little "debate" is entirely different from the bitching and whining you were referencing in your first post. If you are trying to make your first post apply to this "argument," then your first post's logic fails miserably because according to you, anything that makes people argue = something that shouldn't be put into the game.

Examples:
"Which is harder, MAX 300 or Unlimited?" (Or Fascination MAXX vs *insert song from ITG*)
"Old scoring system vs new scoring systems vs home versions" (vs ITG scoring system)
"Does playing on dark or using other mods make you better?" (as well as any ITG mods...)

-According to your argument, following your logic:
Max 300 and Unlimited shouldn't exist
A scoring system shouldn't exist
Mods shouldn't exist at all

AND ITG shouldn't exist, because they've all "made people whine and bitch about something useless."

I'm sure you've never argued about anything because you have a different opinion about something.  :roll:
 
NSX
Read May 17, 2007, 02:21:17 PM #47

Me, I don't really give a Shit... 1x or x1 WHO THE HELL CARES WHICH IS RIGHT OR WRONG. but yeah, you guys kinda got off topic a little. Mods are there for a reason... you use them or you don't. simple as that.
 
manyminimoos
Read May 17, 2007, 06:56:27 PM #48

Quote from: "BLueSS"
I'm a badass admin speaking in the name of logic blah blah


right.  Don't call me out on "being oblivious to playful banter" when you can't even tell what is sarcasm and what isn't.

edit:
Your logic is absolutely horrible.
I said I don't like speed mods because it gives people a reason to bitch about something, and then I speculate what would have happened if it did not exist.  How do you reason from there that I claim that anything that causes debate should not be included in the game?  I made no such statement.  
Absolutely ridiculous.

Just to humor the side of you (and me) that wants a debate, speed mod usage is one of two very central debates that have existed with competitive dance game play, the other being bar usage.  To compare the level of "bitching and whining" that I talk about to max 300 versus maxx unlimited is absurd.  That's like saying that a proponent of withdrawal from iraq must surely promote the absence of diplomacy.
 
BLueSS
Read May 17, 2007, 07:39:41 PM #49

Quote from: "manyminimoos"
How do you reason from there that I claim that anything that causes debate should not be included in the game?  I made no such statement.


Quote from: "manyminimoos"
I said I don't like speed mods because it gives people a reason to bitch about something.

I was just applying your reasoning to something else to show how ridiculous your reason for not liking mods is.

Huh, well I guess I'm sorry. Your post definitely seemed more like a, "Hey guys, I'm proving I'm better than you because you are all are arguing about this stupid thing," rather than sarcasm.
 
The Wise Fool
Read May 18, 2007, 12:36:45 PM #50

Holy shit it's easy to spark controversy around here.

Anyway, my original post was made because I'm totally OCD (not really) and people getting stuff like that wrong makes me mad.
 
 
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