Meh, with firefox why bother. Who wants arthritis anyways?

So a followup to this thread...  it's still the top search result for "itg elitists" and "ddr elitists"

... and "ITG Elitists" is the #1 top referring keyword from google (over the past 30 days).
It even surpasses people who are too lazy to type the .net after "pnwbemani" to get to the site.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Jon, this site needs an award for "best trolling."

This comment has won the day.

thats my alt accoutn

Sooo, who are you and where do you live? ;P

Some statistical argument regarding a re-mention of what's the best body type for playing dancing games.

Something dance game elitists would argue about.

Where the hell did this thread go? I lost it about 2 pages back......

I was just trying to get a basic idea, I'm aware you'd need way more players for an accurate distribution. Was just trying to make a quick argument. I think at this point we won't get anywhere though... I still think it's pretty much the same looking physique at the very top, just my observation.

My degree in statistics says that just bringing up 20 people with a 16:4 distribution in height is not going to be nearly enough to conclude your hypothesis true.  I forget my analyses techniques but that's probably just going to get you some retarded statement like "the hypothesis 'the very best ITG players' heights are not distributed the same as the average american' is not supported by any significant analytical results"

Because of the numbers you're trying to prove you'd probably need well into the 100s, maybe 1000s of players to confirm such a thing, and there just aren't that many players :p

Ok, you find me 4 ITG players who are outside this height range who can 99 most 13s and I'll find you 16 who are in the height range. I'd be willing to bet you'll have a pretty hard time with even just 4 people. I did say the 'best' players anyway not all players. I can 99 some 12s and I'm 5'4 FFS remember? Just the 'best' players are, so far as I know, ALL in this height range, not 7/10 of them in this height range.

Yes I know, I have a degree in mathematics, I know how all this works too. Was just an observation  

I definitely call bullshit on this observation.  I'll give you skinny and lean, but that comes with pretty much anything athletic involving large amounts of endurance and aerobic fitness.

But the height part.  You just said 5'10" is about average in america, so of course a random smattering of people are going to be in the high 5s low 6s range.

edit: in fact, I just did some quick looking up, and 72% of american males 18-24 are between 5'7 and 6'1 (6" range), and 89% of them are between 5'6 and 6'2 (8" range)
Unless you're going to tell me conclusively that a disproportionately larger amount of good ITG players are in these height ranges...
Statistics ftw
I'll also add that the data is 30 years old, so probably add an inch or two in the ranges and you'd still get simliar numbers.

5'10 or so is average in states for a guy. 5'7.5'' in Japan. God I feel short....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height
I'm pretty convinced though that there is some height advantage in dance games, be it because of larger foot size or the reduced leg angle (as in, from your hips to the pad your legs form a lesser angle if youre tall than short) allowing for proportionately less movement. Past a certain height you may have a disadvantage when using the bar because of awkward posture. Could be a bogus observation but most great players (on ITG, which encompasses the hardest songs anyway) are within a 6-8" height range between high 5s and low 6s and are pretty skinny and lean. DDR I would think is less dependent because it's more of a timing game than speed and stamina. Not to say you *have* to be in this category to be good, but probably to be the best.

What are we talking about again? I don't even remember at this point.

In the states for a guy?  I'd say 5'6 is short.  5'8 maybe... but 5'10 is not short anymore.  Probably 6+ before I start saying "tall"

In Japan chop 3 inches or so off that.

c'mon James, you don't wanna join Team Sega?

no but that is a good point. Japanese people, especially DDR players here are short as fuck. I think BROSONI is supposed to be fairly tall though, and he's the only guy I can think of who's consistently VERY good at hard stuff.

also, what would your cutoff for short/tall people be? I'm 5'7, maybe 5'7 and a half on a good day.

Hey dude I'm not that short either.  5'8 and a half. 

What I wanted to say was that those Jap dudes are really tall for JP peeps

James, you and I and Hudson are not very tall

we should be Team 背が低い

The point you ended up making was that there wasn't diversity among the best of the best, haha

and yeah, nicx = nicolas mariani.  such a chill dude. 

Even in Japan, back when I lived there, some of the best players were take, yasu, fujitake, kk, and kobayan.  They represented almost every player with 10 foot AAAs at the time.  They are all taller than me.  Go figure.

James> Fair enough but consider some other great players like Kaze/Hudson (shorter than me, white, small feet) and Soul of Ignorance/Chris (big, black, muscular, big feet) or NicX (big fat white dude, though he's lost a lot of weight). Maybe those four weren't the best example, but I'm just saying there's diversity among the best players.

I still claim to be the end all for foot size debates.  My feet are not huge (8 1/2), but I was one of the pioneers of not using hands on trips and quads.  Amber's foot size is more than enough, she just lacks the technique.  In fact, I can pretty consistently hit corner jumps on DDR with one foot (which is much, much harder to do because of the way input for jumps is processed on ddr).  It's all about how you do it.

By the way ethan, I wouldn't describe a group of four moderately tall skinny to fit white boys having "diverse physiques"

A good player to bring into this would have been someone like nicolas mariani (I fucking forget his SN, but he's originally from HI and now lives in VA).  He's not the best ITG player by any means, but at least on DDR he can AAA just about anything he wants.  The dude is 200+

Gerrak> Worry not.  Kaze is easily very top tier when it comes to DDR only players.  He is uh, not very tall.  At all.
I will say though that people like he and windeu are definitely exceptions; most of the really good players I've known are tall and skinny~fit.

I'm 5'4 140... sigh... I'm like 3 standard deviations below the mean of good players apparently

Kind of true, but amber still misses a lot of hands if she tries to do them with her feet... I've watched, specifically to make myself feel better 

Maybe I just need to refine my technique then...


I think at this point most of us are arguing nothing though... IMO one legged DDR is the only REALLY legit way to play anyway.

Let's look at the physique of the best ITG players in the country, just for good measure.

MegamanX: skinny Bruce Lee, not trying to be racist, Kevin just straight-up looks like Bruce Lee a lot of the time and has decent muscular physique. he's gotta be maybe 5'10 5'11 can't weigh more than 180.
ICNH: tall and skinny white kid. probably weighs about 150 pounds, 6'+
Flash: tall-ish (maybe 6' or a little shorter), last I remember somewhat muscular, good physique, probably comparable to MMX if not a little taller.
DarkXuxa: not that tall, maybe my height or an inch taller (so 5'8 I'd say), skinny, plays in jeans and skate shoes and totally destroys.

Kaze and I concluded that these four are the uncontested best at ITG right now so, and I think they have really diverse physiques. I'm 5'7 and weigh way too much (like 170) with all the muscle in my glamour muscles. I'm not great at hard songs but recently I PFC basically everything 12 and under that I play. now working on 13's and up. (this is on the X scale of course)

  All of the top players Bar Rape for good reason: It's the best technique. If you want to be good at the game you need to learn it. Not Bar Raping in DDR would be analogous to taking a sword to a gun fight.
  If your body isn't the best in the world for this game, do all you can to condition yourself. If you want to be good at something you have to earn it. Don't just be a whiny scrub on a message board screaming like a banshee about your inability to pass 13s. I have issues with concentration that I cannot change and will not EVER be able to overcome. Does that mean I make every other post about that or start pointing fingers at false enemies in order to console myself? No. Do your absolute best and use all the tools at your disposal and play to win... If your body is honestly so out of shape that it impedes your progress in this game, you chose the wrong game. DDR / ITG is an intensely physical activity. Not everything is for everyone.
  However... I don't think physique is the issue.

In my spare time, I dream up ways of thwarting small children in Heelies.  "Ass over tea-kettle" is the phrase, I think. (UBER bonus points if anyone gets that reference.)

But maybe I'll get some light-up Transformer sneakers for the next tournament lol.

I envy you so much. I would luv to play DDR in some light-up shoes. That would be my ultimate rave.

Btw, I would totally buy a pair of Heelies (sp?) if they made them in ginormous size.