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[Tournament] PAD MISS - ITG 3 @ Acme Bowl
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February 01, 2011, 03:56:37 PM
#11
Dr.Z
doin' work
Achievements:
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
I'm pretty sure the opinions of those involved thus far could change dramatically based on the number of participants who actually show up and can make it down to Acme in the first place...
Wouldn't it be amusing if only 3 people that our community considers "expert level" shows up while 20 standard-division players make it =p
I mean, the type of players who made it to the Supernova2 tourny in Seattle were vastly different from the group that played in the round1 national qualifier in Everett.
Once a date gets announced, we could potentially use a relative headcount to affect final parameters for this seeding process.
February 01, 2011, 01:31:21 PM
#10
Suko
Mayor of Awesome Town
Achievements:
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
Quote from: Laura on February 01, 2011, 12:26:38 PM
The point is to have fun. Suko and I don't want the rules for this tournament to become more "stamina intensive" because at the point that 11s and 12s become available earlier on, this tournament is effectively the same as the "Expert" tournament for us.
Pretty much this.
As I said, if the majority want it more difficult, then so be it. But I won't be showing up to something I know I have no chance in hell of winning, especially if it's going to cost me $15 and a 2 hour round trip to do it.
I just don't understand why this thing is going to have two divisions if they're almost identical to each other. It seems like the only purpose of the "Expert Division" is to give the elite players their own little tournament. Throw some more of those stamina players into the upper division if they're worried about how they'll fair playing the easier stuff.
Quote from: amberlewis
Ya yo are absolutely right.I agree with your words.
February 01, 2011, 12:48:34 PM
#9
NekoSempai
'Pro'tagonist
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
Quote from: Laura on February 01, 2011, 12:26:38 PM
This. The point of a tournament is PARTIALLY to determine who the best player out of the pool of entrants is, but also (and I'd argue more importantly) to have fun challenging your friends. Players can't do that if other players have to drop out of the tournament in early rounds from exhaustion.
This statement has a direct counter-argument in that a stamina player has liittle opportunity in the standard division to have fun challenging their friends in what they'd rather play.
It's also being seemingly implied in various statements that expert = being a stamina monster, which isn't the case at all. Outside of upper tier tourneys like FR or RMT, you'll always have better odds getting further having good timing vs good stamina. I'd be more worried in a tourney about the guy who just quadded a 9, not the one who flailed through a 14.
...Also, i'd like to add that though i'm throwing my inputs and opinions around all over this thread, that i'm in no way siding one way or another. Just trying to make it fair for all entrants imo while questioning what seems to be skill biases.
It's so on...
Groovestats - 20
New Goal - Top 15, Reclaim customs #1
February 01, 2011, 12:26:38 PM
#8
SomeLauraChick
STAMINA MCDRAGONFORCE!
Global Moderator
Achievements:
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
Quote
I'm having to usually play 10s and 11s, which push my absolute upper limits. I can maybe pass two of these in a row before I start to fall apart. All a stamina player has to do is keep pushing me until they win by default. Not much skill is needed at this point.
This. The point of a tournament is PARTIALLY to determine who the best player out of the pool of entrants is, but also (and I'd argue more importantly) to have fun challenging your friends. Players can't do that if other players have to drop out of the tournament in early rounds from exhaustion.
Think of it this way: If a player can pass 12s, why not just expand the "Expert" tournament to include them? Sure, they can't pass 13s without throwing up, and their timing on 12s will ensure they get eliminated immediately, but if they were the "best players" they'd be able to do it!
The point is to have fun. Suko and I don't want the rules for this tournament to become more "stamina intensive" because at the point that 11s and 12s become available earlier on, this tournament is effectively the same as the "Expert" tournament for us.
Quote from: Suko on October 14, 2010, 08:52:05 AM
I would
so
look cuter than her if I could find a pair of UGGs that would fit me.
February 01, 2011, 12:03:58 PM
#7
NekoSempai
'Pro'tagonist
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
Quote from: Suko on February 01, 2011, 11:35:19 AM
I don't really see the problem with this. Someone like me, who is good at just about everything EXCEPT stamina, will likely loose to the "balanced" stamina player at the final rounds of the tournament.
The stamina player has to worry in the beginning, but as he progresses, each match favors him/her more and more. Conversely, a tech player has to worry near the end, with each match getting more and more challenging. It's balanced, just on opposite ends. If you don't think it's challenging for me in the finals, than you have no idea what it's like to be me. I'm having to usually play 10s and 11s, which push my absolute upper limits. I can maybe pass two of these in a row before I start to fall apart. All a stamina player has to do is keep pushing me until they win by default. Not much skill is needed at this point.
Look at it this way. Even in the sake of where it's a later round and say 11s are involved, in a best of 3 format, the 3rd song is random. Now...compare the number of 9s/easy10s in ITG 1-Rebirth to the amount of everything else. The song selection alone already favors a tech player over a stamina one. Putting such low difficulty caps on rounds basically gives a player like yourself a complete advantage over a 'stamina' player. It'd be the equivalent of you playing in a round where you could only pick 12/13s, but the 3rd random song can be anything that comes up. Basically you're hoping you even make it to a 3rd song...and THEN luck happens to be on your side.
Really, I just see it as lame that it's likely that a one dimensional player has the best odds of winning the standard division, unless there's just that many well rounded players in that they overflow into the standard division. It'd be a shame to see a finals of a 9, a 12 that doesnt get played by one of the players, and then a random 9 being the decider.
It's so on...
Groovestats - 20
New Goal - Top 15, Reclaim customs #1
February 01, 2011, 11:35:19 AM
#6
Suko
Mayor of Awesome Town
Achievements:
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
Quote from: NekoSempai on February 01, 2011, 06:42:32 AM
So a player that can tech easy things and has no higher difficulty stamina basically has nothing to worry about until the end of the tourney..where any stamina player
who isn't well rounded
will already have been knocked out by 6-10s.
I don't really see the problem with this. Someone like me, who is good at just about everything EXCEPT stamina, will likely loose to the "balanced" stamina player at the final rounds of the tournament.
The stamina player has to worry in the beginning, but as he progresses, each match favors him/her more and more. Conversely, a tech player has to worry near the end, with each match getting more and more challenging. It's balanced, just on opposite ends. If you don't think it's challenging for me in the finals, than you have no idea what it's like to be me. I'm having to usually play 10s and 11s, which push my absolute upper limits. I can maybe pass two of these in a row before I start to fall apart. All a stamina player has to do is keep pushing me until they win by default. Not much skill is needed at this point.
Quote from: Gerrak on February 01, 2011, 10:25:30 AM
I'm not gonna play every hard chart on ITG to ensure that I seed right, nor do I want to rely on a sight read when a ton of hard charts are poorly written or kind of off or something.
Oh come on. It's not that big of a deal.
And to act like so many hard charts suck is naive. Just as many expert charts have stupid patterns with ridiculous steps added in simply to make it more challenging. I'm sure you'll do fine, and a 8/10 difficulty spread will definitely filter people like me out of the expert bracket (assuming the 10 is challenging, instead of a straight-forward song like Wanna Do). Some people entering might not even be able to pass that 10 qualifier, so lets cut them some slack OK?
«
Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 11:46:12 AM by Suko
»
Quote from: amberlewis
Ya yo are absolutely right.I agree with your words.
February 01, 2011, 10:25:30 AM
#5
Gerrak
Puttin' them sorrows on the ahrrows
Restricted
Achievements:
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
$15 is a bit high for the standard division, should be $10 IMO, but this is up to you all I guess.
I like it for the most part, except that seeding should be done on 9/10 or 9/11 not 8/10. I'm not gonna play every hard chart on ITG to ensure that I seed right, nor do I want to rely on a sight read when a ton of hard charts are poorly written or kind of off or something. I realize you would probably pick "good" 8s, but this isn't a tournament for people who regularly play 8s on ITG. In fact I would be skeptical that very many, if any of the players who would be in this tournament
ever
play 8s on the ITG machine at Acme. Hard charts shouldn't be emphasized here. Allowed, but not emphasized.
If the Expert and Standard divisions are entirely separate (and not the top 6 seeders do Expert, and the rest do standard), then certainly at least the Expert should be 9/11 seeding (since 8s aren't even allowed, and as I said never played by us). If it's separated like this, it's still probably fine to do the standard guys at 8/10.
I also agree with Neko that the standard bracket as it is heavily favors timing players, and as such, the first round should allow for 10s (and especially if seeding is done on a 10 anyway), and possibly the third round allow for 11s. Just some ideas!
Thanks for getting this all set up Kevin!! I look forward to proving my mettle
Also,
Quote
In exp division, what would be done with tie breakers? Example Player A loses to B and ends at 5-1. Player B loses to C and ends at 5-1. But player C ends at 4-2. Some would say B owns the tiebreaker and wins. Others would say they should play out the tiebreaker.
My suggestion is any ties do tennis style round robin in a "second round" amongst the ties to determine an overall winner if there are ties after everyone plays everyone. But I can't imagine more than a 2way tie, so this should be just a single final matchup. Again, just an idea
«
Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 10:29:35 AM by Gerrak
»
Focus not on destroying your foe, but on obtaining your own victory...
February 01, 2011, 10:10:54 AM
#4
neempoppa
NIMM
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
To answer your question Sempai, I believe that's how the tourney fee would work and that's after the qualifiers, tracking fee registration should be a dusey.
I also share nekosempai's concern on #3. While I dont have any concern with qualifiers being 8/10. the difficulty cap for the first couple rounds in standard division is something I'm eyeing for the same reasons friend sempai stated.
I'm excited this is blossoming and can't wait to hear from kddr and bill for date and time. Thanks in advance for your effort and time
A king in the makin, and the throne is for the taking, so I climb the mountaintop and put my stake in.
February 01, 2011, 06:42:32 AM
#3
NekoSempai
'Pro'tagonist
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
Nice to see this kicking off!
Couple of things i'm curious about.
1 - With exp and standard having different price tags, so everyone would play qualifiers and THEN pay entry fee?
2 - In exp division, what would be done with tie breakers? Example Player A loses to B and ends at 5-1. Player B loses to C and ends at 5-1. But player C ends at 4-2. Some would say B owns the tiebreaker and wins. Others would say they should play out the tiebreaker.
3 - For the huge debate that was 'stamina vs tech', the standard division HEAVILLY favors tech players. The qualifier is an 8/10, so a stam player can't use their strengths and will likely end up in the standard division...and then aren't even allowed to pick an 11+ until the 4th round...which is top 6 if my memory serves correct (winners finals/losers semis). So a player that can tech easy things and has no higher difficulty stamina basically has nothing to worry about until the end of the tourney..where any stamina player who isn't well rounded will already have been knocked out by 6-10s.
It's so on...
Groovestats - 20
New Goal - Top 15, Reclaim customs #1
February 01, 2011, 12:24:04 AM
#2
neempoppa
NIMM
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
I couldn't have said it any better Keby! I'm real glad this is up, and hopefully soon a date as well
Thank you KDDR for beginning to set this one up!
are these the final rules or a proposed set?
«
Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 03:31:53 AM by neempoppa
»
A king in the makin, and the throne is for the taking, so I climb the mountaintop and put my stake in.
January 31, 2011, 11:32:36 PM
#1
Keby
Pop' Lockin' and Droppin' it
Achievements:
Re: [Tournament] PAD MISS
YAAAAY!!!
btw I love the title of this event! I can't wait!!!
«
Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 11:37:29 PM by Keby
»
January 31, 2011, 10:37:27 PM
- ORIGINAL POST -
KevinDDR
waits the zealot...
Registered
Achievements:
[Tournament] PAD MISS - ITG 3 @ Acme Bowl
KevinDDR and Masterman Vending present:
P.A.D M.I.S.S
Perseverance And Dedication Mostly Indicate Stepping Success
An In The Groove 3 tournament hosted at Acme Bowl in Tukwila, WA.
Sunday, March 20th, 2011!
Time: 11am until late
Rules (
Revision 2 modifications noted in red
) (
Revision 3 modifications noted in blue
):
Both ITG Divisions
- Qualifying will start at a time to be announced, but will last no longer than 1.5 hours. Be punctual!
-
Qualifiers will be announced the day of the tournament, decided by machine random from all ITG1/2 9s and 10s. If 60%+ of tournament entrants think a song is a bullshit qualifier, it probably is, and the machine random will be used again to pick a song of the same difficulty rating.
- The top 6 players from the seeding will be placed into the “expert” division, and everyone else will be placed in the “standard” division.
Expert Division
(6 player cap)
Entry fee: $15
- Prizes will be
60% + 35% raffle pot / 30% + 20% raffle pot / 10% + 20% raffle pot
for top 3
-
Round Robin
format.
- Every player will play every other play in a match following the match structure of standard division.
Any chart of difficulty rating 9 or above may be selected at any time. The random song will be between 9 and 13 in difficulty.
- Higher seed gets choice of either first/second song OR preferred side.
- Songs can be selected from ITG, ITG2, ITG3, and ITG Rebirth.
Players are allowed to pick a chart only once throughout the tournament
(and we will track this.)
- Mods allowed: Speed (including accel/decel, excluding cMods when they disqualify from ranking), Perspective, Arrow skin, Hide Judgment, and Mini.
-
If you pick a song, you have to pass it.
If you fail your own pick, you will lose the song. If both players fail your pick, you will still lose the song. If you fail another player’s pick, you may still win the match due to a higher percent score or the other player failing.
- Pad-error recalculations will be made when necessary - pad errors will be counted as Excellent, Excellent, Fantastic. This count resets per song. Some exceptions will apply as to what is counted as an Excellent or Fantastic in special situations (Example: Player A gets 0 Excellents and 1 pad error. This will be counted as a Fantastic) This rule will be implemented at the discretion of the tournament directors. Further at the discretion of the tournament directors, songs may be replayed if deemed to be the most fair solution towards a dispute.
Standard Division (16 player cap)
Entry fee $10
-
If you end up not qualifying for this division or the expert division, you will be refunded your entry fee.
- Prizes will be
55% + 25% raffle pot /30%/15% for top 3
.
-
Double elimination
, brackets will be NCAA style.
- Matches will be best 2 out of 3, each player picks one song. If necessary, tiebreaker will be selected via random. Difficulty cap is still applicable (see below.)
- Higher seed gets choice of either first/second song OR preferred side.
- Songs can be selected from ITG, ITG2, ITG3, and ITG Rebirth.
Players are allowed to pick a chart only once throughout the tournament
(and we will track this.)
- Mods allowed: Speed (including accel/decel, excluding cMods when they disqualify from ranking), Perspective, Arrow skin, Hide Judgment, and Mini.
-
If you pick a song, you have to pass it.
If you fail your own pick, you will lose the song. If both players fail your pick, you will still lose the song. If you fail another player’s pick, you may still win the match due to a higher percent score or the other player failing.
- Pad-error recalculations will be made when necessary - pad errors will be counted as Excellent, Excellent, Fantastic. This count resets per song. Some exceptions will apply as to what is counted as an Excellent or Fantastic in special situations (Example: Player A gets 0 Excellents and 1 pad error. This will be counted as a Fantastic) This rule will be implemented at the discretion of the tournament directors. Further at the discretion of the tournament directors, songs may be replayed if deemed to be the most fair solution towards a dispute.
There will be a selectable difficulty range in each round of the standard division tournament.
Any difficulty level may be selected as long as the chart’s rating falls into the difficulty range.
First round: 7-10
Second round (first loser’s bracket): 8-11
Third round (second loser’s bracket): 8-11
Fourth round (third loser’s bracket): 9-12
Fifth round (Finals): 9-12
Marvelous Division
(no player cap)
Entry Fee:
$10
- This division will be played on
Dance Dance Revolution Supernova 2
-
Players will qualify based on their "Kevin point" score.
- The "Kevin point" scoring system works as such:
Marvelous = 3 points
Perfect = 2 points
Great = 1 point
OK = 1 point
Add up these values and you get the "Kevin point" score.
- Matches will be best 2 out of 3 using the "Kevin point" scoring system; each player picks one song. If necessary, tiebreaker will be selected via random.
- This tournament will be
single elimination
.
- Higher seed gets choice of either first/second song OR preferred side.
- Speed mods, noteskins, note colors, and turn options are all allowed. All other modifiers are disallowed.
- Pad arbitration will be at the tournament organizer's discretion. The pads at Acme Bowl are excellent, and will be inspected before the tournament. If you get a miss on these pads, you're probably doing it wrong.
Raffle Division
:
There will be a raffle for various Bemani related prizes provided by Masterman Vending. Some of them could potentially be worth a lot more than the cost of a raffle ticket. Who knows? Anyway, the ticket price will be determined once I get a list of the prizes. Enter the raffle! I promise it'll be fun!
Thanks for reading! Rules are subject to change until
March 1st
, at which point in time they will be locked in place for the tournament.
«
Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 04:02:11 PM by KevinDDR
»
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