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BLueSS
January 27, 2007, 02:10:04 AM - ORIGINAL POST -


« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 09:55:28 PM by BLueSS »
 
cwkarma123
Read April 07, 2013, 01:43:57 PM #2451

Not to mention the pads are giving so many errors its unplayable. Who ever did this is a fucking moron...
 
BLueSS
Read April 07, 2013, 02:56:22 PM #2452

Dear self-entitled APHR, please take 2 deep breaths, and then continue reading this post.

First, I moved your posts to the Acme thread, where the discussion about Acme's machines are. There's no need to make a new topic for machine questions about Acme.

Second, Acme is managed by mvco here on the forums, and he's much friendlier when not being swore at (he reads these posts).

Third, considering it wasn't this way previously, maybe this was an accidental setting left on from Sakuracon. Or maybe there's another reason.

Instead of yelling at Bill, let's ask him what the reason for the change was. I'm sure he can help get this resolved. Smiley
 
AndyBurnsDDR
Read April 07, 2013, 03:11:50 PM #2453

In response to APHR. Take two more breaths.

The machine got a LOT of play for Sakura Con. The new songs are from the event and most of them will be taken off but probably not all(pendulum, sharpnelstreamz, packs that matter)

As for the pad issues they were thought to be caused by the vibration of the weaker floor from the con and lots of pad work was done but still they weren't great. There might be some new sensors needed or repaired but Tony or Bill i'm sure will take care of that.

regarding the timer being on, that will be fixed when the packs are removed obviously. 

Also while I'm here I wanted to address Bill.
I just wanted to say a HUGE thank you to letting us use your machines for the Sakura Con event!

Also I wanted to say that you MIGHT want to think about making new arrow panels for your cabinet. They are starting to concave pretty hard.
One possible solution I have your you in the mean time is to have the arrows point inwardly so that the more flat/unused part of the arrow gets more attention because players play on the inside/inner most part of the arrow.

 
mvco
Read April 07, 2013, 03:30:18 PM #2454

I was going to say, I know nothing about the timer, but I guess that has been explained.  More of a question for Tony, who knows the machines innards. 

Which particular arrow is giving problems?

We will look in to a complete set of replacment pads.  Hope they are within reason cost wise, we could just replace them all.  :-)

Bill
 
AndyBurnsDDR
Read April 07, 2013, 03:51:46 PM #2455

Hey Bill

Tony and I were having trouble with the Player 2(right side) up arrow during the tournament and we found a problem sensor. We rotated them until there wasn't an issue and then unplugged the problem sensor.
We assumed there was too much bounce from the floor that was giving miss fires on the pads but I guess we were wrong about that.
If there are any other issues I wouldn't know because i haven't seen the machine since the Con

Ehh arrows aren't exactly "cheap" but I'm hoping you're looking into finding/making ITG arrows because DDR arrows are horrible in comparison.

I personally have an ITG2 upgrade cab which is an old DDR machine running a boxor and we have DDR arrows and they are super stiff in comparison.

Here is a photo of a friends upgrade cab and he made these arrows


they tiles came from a company called Tap Plastic's here in Portland
http://www.tapplastics.com/

I also got info from Kyle Ward(co inventor of ITG) about the exact material
 they are made from and he sent me this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexan

hope any of this helps. Just trying to keep that beautiful machine alive.

EDIT: I've also heard that Pump middle tiles fit into dedicabs and are the same material because they are made from andamiro however i've never been able to test this theory. But since you own both you could check this out. And if they don't fit perfectly you could always have tap plastic's cut them or you.
Decal's are a whole other story

« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 03:55:46 PM by AndyBurnsDDR »
 
ancsik
Read April 07, 2013, 05:50:51 PM #2456

No idea what happened with regard to the setting changes, but everything is almost back to where it should be.

Things I fixed today:
- Timer is turned off again
- Arrows no longer navigate the menus (I have no idea how that got turned on)
- Attract sequence is turned off again
- 1p left and 2p up are at least a little better
- It costs a dollar to play rather than 25 cents

Things I didn't fix today:
- Menu scroll rate is back to the ITG default (i.e. super slow)
- 2p down started acting up just before I left

I'll figure out what's up with the scroll rate in time for my next visit, and if Bill's techs haven't fixed the down arrow by then, I'll take a look at it then as well. For reference, all of the sensor issues as of late generally stem from the sensors being overly sensitive and/or the sensor brackets being too loose or too tight - usually tweaking the sensor brackets is enough to make the errors go away (except during Sakuracon because of the bouncy floor).

Regarding replacement arrows, Andamiro-made ITG dedicabs are, for the most part, a reconfiguration of Pump GX cabs (most obviously 4 panels instead of 5, plus different decals). I've seen it stated somewhere (don't remember where) that most of the parts are swappable (brackets, sensors, at least some of the electronics - I'm pretty sure the ITG arrows are identical to the Pump GX center panels, since that would save some manufacturing costs) and that Andamiro still makes replacements for most/all parts for GX cabs, so you should be able to get official replacements for the arrows (and optionally, the missing corner brackets) from Andamiro directly, though they probably don't produce the ITG decals anymore, so you'd either get blank arrows or yellow center panels from them. Assuming all of that is accurate (it all makes enough sense that I believe it is), Andamiro parts are most likely to actually fit, plus Andamiro's standardized, mass produced parts would most likely be a whole lot cheaper than custom orders at local manufacturers.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 06:17:59 PM by ancsik »
 
Tyrgannus.
Read April 07, 2013, 08:54:55 PM #2457

Let it be known that I never post on here about pad maintenance and complain about every minor thing, but I would like to bring this up once even if it falls on deaf ears.

While I seem to be the only person who plays on the Acme ITG machine that has this problem and I recognize this (and I have no idea why), the up arrow on the 1p side always gives me tons of misses per song, yes the left pad not the 2p side which other people have had issues with. I have had a few witnesses so this and while they think it's weird and always comment that the arrow never bothers them, they will also admit that it doesn't fire for me almost 80% of the time.

I know I'm not the best player in the community and thus it might be easy to brush this off as improper tech but all 7 other arrows always work fine for me. I often attempt double and I theorize that the up arrow might be TOO SENSITIVE and giving me misfires before I even get to it. I am either the biggest guy that plays this machine or at least close to it and I'm probably the biggest guy who plays doubles. My added weight means I probably step with greater force and give it a higher chance to misfire when I hit adjacent arrows. I know this seems like a stretch and no one else seems to have this issue with this arrow on this machine, but I do not have this issue ever on the Supernova 2 or any other well maintenanced 4-panel game. Even if you're positive the 1p up arrow is perfectly fine, it would be unbelievably awesome if you would at least humor me. It renders doubles completely unplayable for me the way it is now.
 
NSX
Read April 08, 2013, 02:11:50 AM #2458

Last time I played on the 1p side was last sat. And I can say with confidence that the up and right arrow were giving all my errors (up arrow the most). I noticed that if you hit the up arrow a certain way itll give me a decent (i dont get decents when it comes to pad errors, usually way offs). 2p was okay but still gave errors as well. I think if you could tweak it back to the way it was prior to sakura con, things should be fine...

 
Happy Redneck
Read April 08, 2013, 03:32:13 AM #2459

Instead of yelling at Bill, let's ask him what the reason for the change was. I'm sure he can help get this resolved. Smiley
....?
 
sfxazure
Read April 08, 2013, 08:54:45 AM #2460

....?

It's not clear (at least to me) what it is you're asking or confused about. Try using some words. Cheesy
 
Suko
Read April 08, 2013, 09:22:11 AM #2461

I was going to say, I know nothing about the timer, but I guess that has been explained.  More of a question for Tony, who knows the machines innards. 

Which particular arrow is giving problems?

We will look in to a complete set of replacment pads.  Hope they are within reason cost wise, we could just replace them all.  :-)

Bill
Bill, please let me know when/what you find out regarding this. When I contact Andamiro about replacement panels they were $50 a piece. WAY too expensive for me, but if you find a better deal, I would be interested in replacement arrows for my machine, too.

Thanks!
 
Suko
Read April 08, 2013, 09:34:14 AM #2462

tl:dr = Arrow not working
My guess is that it's a "sticky arrow". ITG the arrow panels don't light up when depressed, they light up only when you are supposed to hit the arrow, so during a song this might not be noticeable. Next time you're in the menu or something (where you can activate the lights under the arrows by pressing it), try stepping on the arrow forcefully, repeatedly and quickly. See if it stays lit longer than it should.

Big guys like you and I will generally encounter "sticky arrows". This is something most players will not experience (especially with the prevalent bar usage these days). Due to my weight/size/whatever, when I play I put more pressure on the panel and have a greater chance of causing the bracket that depresses the sensor to get stuck int he down position, not allowing successive hits to be made until the bracket gets knocked loose again.

Based off your description, I can't say this is the issue with 100% certainty, but I'd bet that if it's only happening to you, then that could certainly be a possibility.

Solution: WD40 that mothaf*cker! This is what I do on my cab. Just lube the area where the screws meet the brackets and make sure they're tight (with the spacers installed). If they're loose, this can let the bracket wobble more than it should and it can get stuck at off angles.
 
ancsik
Read April 08, 2013, 10:50:05 AM #2463

Can't speak for Bill's techs, but I definitely have never lubricated the sensor brackets. Adjusting the tightness of the brackets so they stay in place (if they slide too far out, the force doesn't go to the sensor anymore), but don't stick at all when jiggled (obviously one way for the bracket to get stuck holding the sensor down) is the first thing I do when people are having pad issues, and most of the time, that fixes it, so a little bit of WD40 on tighter brackets may make things a little more consistent.

I'm also tempted to do a thorough check on all of the sensors and move them around them according to sensitivity, hopefully making the inner sensors a little less sensitive than they are now. Unlike DDR sensors (which weaken over time), ITG sensors seem to get more sensitive over time, and the inner sensors are starting to get absurdly responsive; during Sakuracon, in the I/O test menu, I could pretty consistently trigger 2 arrows on the 2p side by stepping a little harder than normal on the center panel; the bouncy floor made it easier to do that, but I've definitely hit mines by stepping on the center panel at Acme as well). The inner sensors tend to be the most worn (and therefore the most sensitive) and they are the most likely to be triggered unintentionally (closer to the other arrows, adjacent to the center panel, plus players tend to step close to the center), so having them be as sensitive as they are now is probably starting to be a bad thing.
 
Nykkel
Read April 08, 2013, 11:47:03 AM #2464

Channelbeat (in China / Hong Kong) sells the middle yellow PIU panels for $9 each, and DDR arrows for $12 each, but aren't any help with real ITG arrows.  I mention this because those were the panel ideas I heard people suggest.

The DDR arrows are $50 each at Betson.  Ew.  But I guess they're probably one of the few official US sources.
 
Suko
Read April 08, 2013, 01:16:24 PM #2465

during Sakuracon, in the I/O test menu, I could pretty consistently trigger 2 arrows on the 2p side by stepping a little harder than normal on the center panel; the bouncy floor made it easier to do that, but I've definitely hit mines by stepping on the center panel at Acme as well).
Ghost hits suck. Easy way to check for this is to go into the IO test menu and jump up and down on the center metal panel. See if any of the sensors trigger. If they do, it's too sensitive.

And I know some of you LOVE having hyper-sensitivity, but you got to remember there's people like me out there who, just through my size, can accidentally trigger these "ghost hits" when we are stomping on other arrows.

Properly keeping sensors in check means riding a fine line between hypo and hyper sensitivity.
 
Happy Redneck
Read April 08, 2013, 02:29:54 PM #2466

It's not clear (at least to me) what it is you're asking or confused about. Try using some words. Cheesy
I don't think Chris was necessarily yelling at Bill.
 
mvco
Read April 08, 2013, 06:40:13 PM #2467

Oh boy, had a tech there today, said all the sensors seemed okay in test, but yes, we know better.  After he worked on it, a few good players were arrow smashing, he asked them if they could find any prblems, and they told him it was playing great.

Bullshit!  We know some sensors are starting to get janky.  To our more knowledgeable players, if you could list which sensors, at which arrows, are bad so we can attack it.  Or if Tony still has some new ones, he is also welcome to take a stab at it.  Getting real confusing reading all this, as it seems there are on the edge sensors everywhere.

Did not gte a chance to call Andamiro yet for new panel prices, will try to get that done tomorrow.  :-)
 
Dr.Z
Read April 08, 2013, 08:24:04 PM #2468

Thanks Bill, Tony, and Bill's techs.

Appreciate the effort~
 
ancsik
Read April 09, 2013, 09:20:07 AM #2469

I still have 2 spare DDR sensors somewhere in the trunk of my car, I believe, so I can do a little bit of work on the fly, as long as I remember to bring a knife and electrical tape. Speaking of which, of the sensors that have been replaced with DDR sensors (there are only a few), most have been swapped out correctly (cut the clip off the old and splice it onto the new), but at least one was cut below the clip, so now it's directly spliced into the lead wire and there's no clip. It still works, and that particular sensor hasn't been a problem, but if it does ever need to be replaced, it'll be a little more annoying than normal, plus it can't easily be rotated to other slots, since it can't be unclipped anymore (I did move this sensor during Sakuracon - dedicab lead wires are extremely long in general, so snipping the zip tie that bundles all of the sensor leads gave me enough wire to work with to swap two of the sensors without actually needing to cut and re-splice). The sensor in question has been that way as long as I've been opening up the machine, so there's probably no way to know who made the mistake, but it's definitely something to make sure the techs know not to do.

When I was checking into details about my "it's really a Pump GX cab" post, I did stumble on a parts reseller in Hong Kong that was selling supposedly-official Pump panels for $32.50 apiece (and supposedly-official Andamiro/Konami sensors for like $10 apiece, with a bulk discount for ordering 16+), but the panels were on back order, so it's hard to say if that would amount to anything. If this seems like a potentially useful lead, I can go dig up their info again.
 
mvco
Read April 09, 2013, 05:17:26 PM #2470

Allan and our tech are working on the ITG as I type this..  Hopefully will be better by the end of that session.  Nice to know Tony also has some sensors in case we miss one. 
We actually replaced a couple this morning, but then Allan called and reoprted more issues, so back at it once again.  :-)
 
mvco
Read April 11, 2013, 05:19:16 PM #2471

Update,

I personally just spent a few hours on ITG pad work today.  All new sensors in the 5 arrows that were getting complaints.  Seems to trigger and release real well.  Also, for grins and giggles, we thought it would not be a bad idea to exchange the stage I/O board, so that has alos been done just in case it was causing problems.
If it is still messed up after this, I would have to wonder if maybe the timing windows in the program, or something else weird could be happening.

Hope it checks out okay tonight.

Bill
 
cwkarma123
Read April 11, 2013, 07:05:54 PM #2472

Hey guys just letting you know that the arrows are still janky. Was just there playing a few sets but still giving way offs especially when you hit the janky arrows in succession, I.e. up twice.

Yeah, Abbye and I were there at acme helping the tech test the arrows for about two hours, it worked well for about three sets and then started giving us trouble.

Again, it's the up and right arrow on the player 1 side And up and left arrow on the player 2 side. We really hope this gets fixed, we are practically there everyday and its not playable for players trying to score.

Thanks,

Chris and Abbye
 
cwkarma123
Read April 12, 2013, 01:41:34 AM #2473

I've thinking, could it be that the pads aren't the issue but the timing window or something in the programming? I remember playing last Friday afternoon, around 3 and the machine was playing flawlessly. However, Michael said the pads started to act up that night. I was told that a tech accidentally put 50+ credits into the machine and reset it over the weekend, thus having the machine revert back to having a timer, etc.

Could that have caused this problem?

We came back on Sunday to play and the machine was acting really strange, timers were activated and the scroll speed in the song selection menu was super slow. We came back on monday hoping the machine was fixed, but unfortunately the pads started giving errors. Since then its been pretty messed up.

Just a thought...
 
Suko
Read April 12, 2013, 11:58:36 AM #2474

Hey guys just letting you know that the arrows are still janky. Was just there playing a few sets but still giving way offs especially when you hit the janky arrows in succession, I.e. up twice.
Sticky arrows.

Bill, have you tried lubing the hell out of the brackets? That works on my machine.
 
cwkarma123
Read April 12, 2013, 03:17:32 PM #2475

Just saying, the down arrow on the player 1 side is busted now too.
 
 
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