Which ones?  Personally, I think they're too conservative so far, with minimal crossovers and nothing really insane thrown in.  None of the charts I watched looked doublesteppy during streams, and they followed the music well.  My concern is Kyle and Foy are afraid to make the new charts too hard because of their inexperience with making 5 panel charts.

Also, a lot of Pump charts are very awkward.  Shake It Up CZ anyone?

You are not a mod. This is called "humor." Take a deep breath, it will be fine.
[edit: beaten. :)]

Back on topic, anyone gonna check this out this weekend? Foy and I are coming down Fri/Saturday.

Diggit 6<-- Conspirator / denier.

jk
NOW....

And Pump has been sued before. Don't talk out of your ass. You do that a lot, and the forums reek of idiocy already.
worst logic I've seen from you yet. The point would be to establish DDR as the market dominator and squelch / discourage people's grass root efforts to make a game. Why would they want to pay the others on the ITG development team when ITG team members actively disliked Konami? Konami wouldn't want anything to do with them. Kyle used ITG to get to konami from the start, but this was a joke from the beginning. Now I'm challenging your logic, not the validity of my joke.

Pump pro is andamiro. it cant get sued. i dont really even know if you guys are serious or not, but stop making stuff up. i though conspiracies died with Serious business (or at least they were supposed to). keeping this up could sink this thread for good. now stop. also, if konami was using kyle, they wouldn't have touched ITG, so they would still get money from the anti-DDRers.

Dude, stop making stuff up.  It's common knowlege Konami made DDR so they could sue Roxor.

but this is a whole nother layer 2 that. the fact that kyle was in on it is synyster. Kyle set up roxor as means to screw over stepmania in the long run. he can manipulate the community by making these new projects and having us believe he's not with konami. this time konami sent their littl e time bomb to andamiro. pray that andamiro won't get sued again. maybe kyle will even go as far as sabotaging the game. he did that with itg by allowing kid whatever's music in it. he tried to make itg look like a shady rip off so he could have konami win the case. this is a grand conspiracy against grass roots dance games that cannot b ignored.

KONA-SPIRACY
Kyle ward has hidden his real plans for a while. ITG was just a way for him to get to DDR. Now that he's inside andamiro, he can get pump sued, and go back to konami. this will leave DDR dominant again. This has been in the works since stepmania's inception, which was merely a tool to target and find individuals who may be a threat to konami's "legacy". Betson set DTX up to fail. They left the project to screw them over: they had already signed contracts with konami. They just wanted to put themselves ahead of the curve. I know the admins will ban us for this, but PLEASE LISTEN.

In all honesty, not everyone has your opinion. Kyle Ward helped with the Stemania project which Did have original ideas, many people like at least one song of his (I personally like Destiny), and some people like at least one of his charts.

So, even if you hate Ward, he's not quite as bad as you say.

Do I think PiuP is the best of ideas? Not majorly. I doubt that it will draw in much of a crowd that didn't already play Pump due to the 5-panel layout, and I don't think many Pump players will lay it due to it's Americanization, so in the end, I don't see a big fanbase for this at all.

BUT, I don't actually blame him for making an American Pump. It's not really a sin.

This is a separate "spinoff" from the main Pump series and the original will continue (the next mix is named and is at least half way complete as it is).

So yeah, my last post obviously went over everyone's heads. Shockingly enough, there are people that enjoy pump it up the way it is, and care about where the series goes. Sure the ITG people might have something new they'll want to play, but this will never attract current Pump players. There's a feeling you get from Pump that is unique and unless you get that feeling as well, you'll never understand. I know this is all falling on deaf ears, but I may as well say it.

I wish Ward would come up with something original instead of repeatedly trying to capitalize on the hardwork and success of other game developers.

And make a song worth listening to.

And steps worth playing.

And now that I mention it, let me say something else about steps. Spending too much time on them makes you overanalyze them and makes them way too technical. This removes a lot of the fun factor it may have had. Most songs on pump it up take three days to complete, and are 100 times better than almost all of ITG.

I'm expecting to enjoy this a lot.  Back when ITG first showed up in my area, I was disapointed about having to go back to 4 panel to play new content, since the patterns are so awkward and limited.  ITG's gameplay and Pump's layout combined, while not revolutionary, is an excellent idea that is a lot of fun.  What this is is an incarnation of ITG3, so I don't understand why the same people who were anticipating its release now bash the game because of a change in the arrow layout.  The Pump purists  are being alarmist at simple correctable flaws in the beta, and view this game is violating their sacred franchise.  ITG's beta was a lot crappier than this, and they managed to turn it into a somewhat polished product, so I'm optimistic about Pump Pro's future.

So I spent a little time playing Pump it Up Pro, currently beta testing at Big Al's Sports Bar & Bowling Alley (or as it's more commonly known, "Bi Gals") in Vancouver, Washington. I think people already know the basics behind what this game is already, so let's jump right into it.

DISCLAIMER: I am not the most knowledgable or experienced Pump player. Not that I'm very good at DDR/ITG, but I'm even worse at Pump. So I don't know all the details of which songs appear on which mixes and whatnot.



Also, my camera sucks. Sorry.

Let's first address the songlist, as that's what seems to be causing arguments already. Yes, there are Kyle Ward songs in the game. No, they are not the bulk of the songlist. Most of the songs are indeed songs from older Pump mixes, some of which apparently did not make it back for New Xenesis. Then you've got a good number of Kyle's songs from ITG1 and 2 (not all of them though), along with a handful of songs that were rumored to be in ITG3. Stop & Go, Esperanza, Ra, Hasen Mich... probably some others I'm forgetting. I believe there are some other new songs by artists who aren't Kyle too, but like I said, I honestly can't always tell which songs are new because I have no access to newer Pump mixes. Anyway, there's around 126 songs or so on this beta, and I don't know if more will be included later.

For what it's worth, the step patterns for the returning ITG songs are not identical to their 4-panel counterparts, i.e. there's nothing like the repeated Right arrow stomp on Utopia. Zodiac's chart looked a lot easier too. ITG1 songs like Utopia and Xuxa were edited down time-wise. Robotix has no 1337 bpm speedup, instead it's just one long pause in the middle, which is pretty lame. Xuxa has no BPM stops at all.



When you push Start, you're greeted with this screen. The "Progressive" mode is not selectable in this beta. I think it's safe to assume that the Progressive mode will likely be Marathons with scripted modifiers and all that. Also note the "INSERT CARD" at the bottom-left of the screen. In this beta there's no USB support, but it will be in the final. Presumably it'll save song records and modifier preferences, but who knows what else.



Here is what the song select screen looks like. One of the new "borrowed" enhancements from ITG is that you can see the number of steps, holds, 3/4/5 arrow steps, jumps, mines, and rolls. And of course you get to see the machine record, and the not-yet-implemented personal best through USB card support. For me, being able to see the number of steps is another welcome change. I always seemed to have a knack for finding Pump songs that were misrated because I had no idea what I was getting into when I selected the song. At least here you have a better idea of what to expect.

The song select timer in this beta is 40 seconds, which is waaaay too short.



Selecting a song brings up the difficulty/modifier selection menu. Pretty much all the modifiers from ITG are in here too. One important change Pump players might want to know about are the noteskins - by default, the arrows are colored by 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, etc. Of course in old Pump versions you had orange for UL and UR, yellow for Center, blue for DL and DR. If you prefer that format, fear not! Select the "Classic" noteskin and you're good to go.

Speed modifier wise, it seems that they're faster than what the same mod would be on a previous Pump game... i.e. x1 feels more like x1.5 on older Pump mixes. I ended up playing most of my songs on x1.5 because x2 often felt way too fast... but maybe that's because the pads were pushed up pretty close to the screen. So I would highly advise against picking x3 on anything if it's your first time playing this version. Also, the available speed mods for selection were (this might not be 100% right): x0.25, x0.5, x0.75, x1, x1.5, x2, x3, x4, x8, C200, C400, Random. Yeah, those are two pretty horrible choices for C mods.

(P.S. I thought Aliens In Our Midst was really fun, yes it's very slow and hand-heavy, but I enjoy hands and much prefer to play songs that don't have 8 bazillion steps)



Ehh, figures the only results screen I'd take a picture of would end up blurring and looking like shit. Ignore the generic Pump it Up Pro banner, the game does show the banner of whatever song you played, but some songs did not have banners in place yet. So you've got mines and rolls from ITG, but that's not the only things that were borrowed - there is now a "Superb" step timing in the line of Marvelous and Fantastic. The Perfect window has always been huge enough to drive a truck through in Pump, the timing windows in Pump Pro... are roughly the same size as ITG, but slightly looser. It certainly felt easier to stay on beat with Superbs than it was with Fantastics, although I was sort of annoyed that Superb and Perfect have roughly the same font color, making it a little more difficult to tell when you're going off-beat. Also, you can't see your percentage score until the song is over, there's no score display during the song.

Maybe it's a side effect of having slightly larger timing windows, but the song syncing? It felt wonderful. I can't think of a single song I played that felt "off". (it's worth noting that Bi Gals has an unpatched Supernova machine placed back-to-back with Pump Pro. I played one game of that while I was there and I was so spoiled by the nice syncing that it became impossible to get assloads of Greats)



yeah, I'm dreading having to read that on potential marathons  ;o

At the beta test, the price is $1 / 3 songs, and there is NO Extra Stage. Whether it will be added later, I don't know. Also, double premium appears to be disabled, so Freestyle/Nightmare songs end up costing 2 songs. I'm sure this will be an operator-adjustable setting (hopefully defaults to On)



It's worth clarifying that Pump it Up Pro is NOT the successor to New Xenesis, but rather it's going to be a whole new "series" of Pump. It will get a worldwide release, and possibly a home version if it does well.

I'm rather surprised that the game is already getting so much bashing from both the 4-panel fanboys who refuse to play Pump, and the 5-panel fanboys that don't want any ITG influence in their game. I'm someone who's infinitely more comfortable with 4-panel arrow smashing games, but guess what? I enjoyed Pump Pro more than I did than with my limited experience with the other games in the series. I think it may just end up being fairly successful in getting 4-panel players to finally give Pump a try though, because I really appreciated the improvements to the interface (seriously, it always felt so awkward to me to have to select songs with the arrow panels, so better late than never having selection buttons on the cabinet). In talking with Kyle, he said that he truly believes that players should have a choice in what types of dancing games to play, and that variety is a good thing. I couldn't agree more.

Give it a try before you write the game off. Seriously. I will definitely be playing the finished version when it's released.

My problems with this game run deeper than just gameplay mechanics and steps. I'll use Turkeyslam's post from his forum to sum it up because it's exactly what I'm feeling:

-music from Korea that gives Pump music a distinguishable flavor of its own from a distinct culture (there is no kpop on piupro)
-"fun" nature where the focus is on enjoying yourself and immersing yourself in the music rather than getting perfect scores on songs
-the hip-hop, freestyle-like element that no other game has in any way... the breakdancing feel... the laxed nature where the game has easy grading to allow you to do improv freestyles on the machine and still do well when playing
-not being focused on "standardization" (all songs follow the same formula, level scale, and general features) but rather being more into experimentation (Another steps, various gimmick charts, remixes, full songs, crazy World Tour missions with hilarious requirements, Raw/Bee A-NM, etc etc etc)
-the general VIBE that Pump presents which no game can emulate in any way

I doubt anyone on here can understand this but oh well. They're basically alienating the game and it's fanbase.

I'm also sad this is what America could likely be stuck with. Thank god Korea and Mexico are the biggest markets for AM and still love the game for what it's supposed to be and arcades here can "import" the real mixes.

I'm hoping this game doesn't just turn into Pump It Up: In The Groove - Kyle Ward - Mix.  From the videos, the songlist looks like its just classic pump songs, and his stuff.  Too bad his stuff isn't that great.  I still think some of the best stuff in ITG was from Kid Whatever, I doubt he'll want to take part in this series after all the ITG hassles.  This game just looks like an ego boost for Kyle himself, judging from the songlist so far.  I'm sure it'll change though... hopefully.

I'm not saying effort == quality, but rather defending their qualifications. There is still a lot of shit out there, sure there's one or two good step artists, but that doesn't mean you put them on a payroll. I guess unless you're comparing apples to apples here, there's really no basis for "he/she can definitely make charts better."

My point was not about non-profit, or helping a church, or building a house, or whatever. You don't have to like anything, all I'm saying is that they are qualified to do what they are doing.

I guess I can't really argue with your opinion, but if you don't see what ITG has done as innovation, then I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I agree on the ITG double stance. That I'll give you. What I also know is that the other step artists are qualified. You may not like them, but I'll be damned if their heart and soul didn't go into every step chart and playtested like you wouldn't believe in addition to their level of experience. Incredible for what essentially amounts to a team of less than 10.

There's a lot of Kyle hate here, which is ok- to each their own. Again, for what it began as (a small in-house production) you have to use artists that will work for nothing but recognition. I don't see many other people essentially dedicating years of their life to a project with minimal return. That doesn't say much for you opinion of his music, but he is definitely doing it because he loves it. Also, you're going to see a lot of PIU return with nothing but more options for you as the player. Andamiro knows what players want and they've listened.

Mines were a way to force you into a pattern. They aren't used on anything but expert charts and if ITG songs are in the new version of pump- that's why. I don't think you'll see them in PIU charts.

As far as passing judgement goes, how much have you played? If you say "none, I just watched a video" then it's really difficult to take you seriously at all.

[imo] ITG sucked horribly.
ITG was:
A combination of people who weren't qualified to make good step charts (especially doubles)
A combination of mostly horrible music
Stupid because they tried to put hands and mines in all over the place where they weren't needed

...and now they're going to ruin a perfectly good game with all the aforementioned junk.

"Hey look guys, I'm "Pro" because I can use hands to look just as retarded as those guy who played ITG"

Pump players do *not* enjoy the same things ITG or DDR players enjoy. Pump is about flow and movement, something neither 4 arrow dance game could accomplish. This will end up being full of Kyle's music (because it's cheaper that way), full of people who probably wouldn't have any clue at doubles steps again, and it's taking away from the chance of people getting real Pump cabinets (that don't suck).

I'm with Davyn here on pretty much everything.

Well, at least ITG's BS charts will fit in with the extreme Pump charts...

(Waits for Pump "Pro" R21)

And on a final note, it's easy to pass judgment on the game because all it is, is an ITG bastard child of Pump.

Is there anything innovative besides mixing Pump with ITG?

well, I ended up going and played it a bit, and I must say I enjoyed it.

Yes, it's more or less a hybrid of Pump + ITG. Besides the obvious addition of songs by Kyle Ward and Oscillator X and maybe some other songs that were supposed to be on ITG3 (? I dunno), there are some ITG-themed changes to the interface. You select your modifiers from a menu, you get to see the number of steps/hands/mines/rolls/etc before you select a song, a percentage-based scoring system, etc. Machine records are saved although you don't get to put your initials in on this beta. And yes, there's still plenty of old songs on the machine, Kyle told me that they've brought back some songs that were absent in NX.

I will have a longer review up later!

1. I'll agree to disagree :)
2. Didn't know that. But there have been some seriously BS steps in Pump- calling out one thing you see you don't like isn't holding much ground for your position.
3. Great (I'll be honest, I don't have much to say in regards to the steps. You're obviously playing at a much higher level. I'm speaking from more of a generalist perspective)
4. You're passing judgement on beta software. You obviously haven't been designing much software recently ;)
6. Like multiple steps? Kind of inaccurate isn't it?
7. I don't have anything more to add here. :)
8. Yeah, you must not have played it a lot. There was a ridiculous amount of change.
10. Might want to direct this to the appropriate people then?
11. Again, you may want to talk to someone that can help there. This is the time to get stuff like that implemented (although, it also might actually be there as well- don't know)

As someone who's coming from a pump background, it's a shame you've passed judgement on the entire game by watching half a video.

edit: And I know listing things looks like it's coming off as an attack, it's not, I'm just replying easily to your list to my list to your list ;)

1. Kyle Ward makes bad music. "Beta" or "Final" can't change that.
2. Pump does not have any pattern with two or more freezes and a single step that requires you to use your hands. In fact, there are maybe three songs total that make you use your hands in all of pump it up. (if you're  wondering, i've been playing continuously since pump it up came to the US. i know whats up)
3. You obviously haven't played pump it up in a long time. the entire point of all their stepcharts is for them to be done without any double stepping. come play some time and i'll show you.
4. unless each song has its own video that isn't just generic loops of tunnels and sparks, it won't be much better.
5. VERY GOOD.
6. the way pump it up handles them.
7. again, pump it up has no double stepping. you guys just can't play it right. not trying to be mean or a smartass or whatever, but seriously, the steps are made so you can alternate the entire charts. it just takes a while to learn how to do all the kinds of crossovers the game can throw at you.
8. i hope so. though looking at itg1 beta to itg1 final, i didn't see much change.
9. Yeah.
10. Yeah. just pointing out what i find wrong, thats how they improve betas anyway.
11. i prefer using the pad over buttons, but i guess thats just me? at least put the speed code on the pad.

At least I can rest easy knowing we have an NX here and that andamiro isn't stopping production of the real game anytime soon.

OK I watched half a video of a song and compiled a little list of things wrong.

1. The song sounds like shit.
2. Forced hands (quad freezes with middle quarter notes? Come on...)
3. Steps don't flow and have completely unneeded spins.
3. The noteskin doesn't animate properly (looks like pump in sm, static arrows)
4. Horrible background videos.
5. Mines.
6. Holds function the same as itg.
7. Way too much double stepping.
8. Ugly theme.
9. Too many judgment gradings.
10. Same difficulty scale as ITG.
11. Can't use the pad for navigation or codes.

If I ever decide to try this thing I would only play actual Pump it up songs. I've had more than enough Kyle Ward the past couple years. Also it's hilarious watching him try to play piu songs. He's totally lost. Makes me wonder how bad his steps will be.

I hope we don't get one of these up here.

Ok so now i have some info on what it is.
Originally posted by Rosie from itgfreak