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on: October 02, 2014, 04:18:47 PM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by Gerrak
Relevance: 56.4%
Hi! My name's Allan. If you haven't met me, I've played more ITG at Acme than anyone and I've won a bunch of PNW tournaments. With that in mind, and being that I've played with almost everyone who plays at Acme, many people come to me when there's things to be done at Acme, drama, etc. I used to jokingly refer to Acme as my "kingdom;" I care a whole lot about it and the people who play there and have worked my ass off to help things to stay as best they can there, hence why on the left here if you mouse over "Owner" it says for Acme Bowl. Honestly, if you haven't met me in-person, I have trouble believing you have any real investment (yet) with our community since I go to almost every event and play all the time there.

This is why I am so vigorously protective of the current state of things, and why I am so resistant to the recent abrasive nature of these forums and the recent 'discussions' on them. Just as Laura has claimed people coming to her about these brackets (presumably mostly FL people), I have had at least 5 or 6 people message me separately about how they feel like the machine is poised to be ruined and how upset they are with the direction things seem to be going. We have also had at least 4 players quit playing at Acme Bowl due to this kind of antagonism, which has never happened before and whose reason is really shameful.



To provide some history, these modifications were discussed for years. This has been something we decided to do after a very long time of playing in craters. And it was talked about with all the regular Acme players; I would know because at the time I was playing at Acme every day and I knew everyone there. We got tired of trying to do Dragonforce and other stuff on that kind of pad, when seemingly everyone else used modifications... People used to come complain about how bad Acme's pads were for having no mods! Like Canada and Kevin Boddy (MMX).

As I understand it, some of you guys just moved here or just started chiming in when we were trying to nail it down and troubleshoot it when there were a few problems. Now the pad is great and doesn't give any kinds of errors that I've seen. We modified it with Sara (PEZ)'s pad style in mind, but only recently got the proper sensors for it.

Quote
I would also like to mention that every player who recently moved here from FL (there's a rather large handful of us) have played on ACME's pads and been blown away by how terrible they were.

So my problem is that I feel like you guys just moved here and are trying to just take over everything and change it to your liking when we just finally got things working properly in the way we have it modified. With the new sensors we figured were the problem, we were able to get them
 
Quote
Thankfully...  ...way better than they were a month or two ago
Again, it was done with Sara's pad in mind. While I welcome you guys to the PNW, the whole "insult and antagonize" instead of "support and encourage" attitude you made very clear at SPERGIN is simply not how we play or discuss things in Washington.

Further, I've gotten phenomenal scores on crossover/pivot songs as well as others. I quadded Tomoe the other day for instance. I too was very frustrated at the prior state of things; I especially hated footswitch songs because the pads were too sensitive and I'd get tons of errors, but that has been thankfully finally fixed now!


Look, we've had a community that has been around for a pretty long time, and we did these things in the way we did for a reason. While you might not like exactly what we've done, the dozens of people who competed in IWSS 1/2 tended to like this style, hence why it has become the standard here. It is also a standard of modification that can be found in other places, so the idea that it's "just us who do it this way" is simply not correct. We emulated other national-level players' perfect setups with those players' direct guidance. At this time the pad works great for all kinds of songs and it should really be in the realm of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". If there's a really great reason as to why they should go back on then provide it, but I really don't see why anything needs to be changed from where we are now and potentially screw things up again. The pads are modified to a good healthy competitive standard (just maybe not the one FL is used to) and work great as-is. Thanks for your consideration.
 
 2 
on: October 02, 2014, 03:52:18 PM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by DJ Yoshitaka
Relevance: 54.9%
Why can't we just play the game the way it was meant to be played?  If we are expected to get aquainted to the modded pads why cant we expect you guys to do the same? 

It would be nice to actually want to play ITG at Acme again. 
 
 3 
on: October 02, 2014, 02:35:20 PM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by Rose
Relevance: 52.6%
Hey this is APHR commandeering ROSE's account to respond to this particular post.  

Hi KAZE,

I just thought I should respond back to you with regards to your post since there are no other voices on this forum to stand up to your points.

Would you guys stop calling it a "higher level of play"? In my opinion technique is far more impressive than shuffling your feet at a million BPM. A quad star on Euphoria is far more impressive to me than clearing a 19 (see: there are a handful of people who can clear 19s, but absolutely zero people who can quad star Euphoria), but oh no!!!! Euphoria is only a 12. Anybody who plays that must be a scrub, right?

Just as you consider technique far more impressive, those who play 16's at 240 BPM consider it just as impressive. We aren't degrading you for playing technical charts, I for one am impressed by those who are able to quad songs like Gargoyle (12). I apologize if any of us have come across like we are better because we play 18's, this was not our intentions. But, we shouldn't be attacked for playing 16's and 17's just the same. Just like you, I've been playing for over 10 years, and started from ground zero. I played my way through So Deep on Extreme, played my way through Delirium and Determinator on ITG, and played my way up to Stay In Your Room with K on our current cab at ACME.

My point is, what you do is just as amazing as what I do. Why not encourage one another to do more and to do better versus tearing one another down for our preferences?


The pads at ACME are absolutely wonderful for using zero energy to do burst runs at whatever BPM your hearts desire. Shuffle that in with a pound of baby powder, your precious bar, and some slippery socks and you're in good shape to pass whatever "high level" charts you want.

I just don't understand why using socks, powder, and the bar is such a big deal. If someone uses, sandals, dirt, and one hand on the bar, then it is up to them, why should I judge them when they are playing the way they like and having fun? I would never judge you and tear you down for using Windex and shoes, because that is what you prefer and I respect that.


Meanwhile, I don't give two shits about that stuff and I've been playing dance games for over 14 years. I've won close to 100 tournaments, large and small, and have given top ITG players a run for their money in multiple instances. I don't claim to be the best or even close to it. I recently moved here from the East Coast and it sucks seeing the only publicly available dedicab be modded to absolute shit for anybody who wants to actually get good scores. Have you guys tried playing pivot heavy charts on these pads? I played a Yodler in Texas on them earlier this week and racked up about 4 excellents and 4 way offs. It has absolutely nothing to do with my playstyle. The pads are way oversensitive, and them being so raised will cause them to fire if you move around the pad a lot. This isn't an issue if you're only playing 16th note streams at 240 BPM, so for you guys I'm sure they're wonderful. It's however, absolutely unfair to the rest of us who don't need to cheat our way through passing footspeed charts, and would just like a pad that works as it's intended to.

I don't think it is fair for you to say people are cheating. I believe we are using as many advantages to help us get through, what we consider difficult charts. There are no written rules to dictate whether we can or cannot use powder, use the bar, or use socks to pass charts. All these ideas of what you may consider cheating was thought up by people, and just like those ideas, people have thought up ways to aid themselves. No one is right, and no one is wrong here.

For the record, I have played on probably over 100 dedicabs all throughout the country since ITG2 released, and this is literally the first machine I have ever played on without the brackets. Right before I moved here we had a tournament in Florida called DDR Storm where plenty of top players came to compete. Our machine had the brackets. In the upper division Rynker and Paul tied with a DOUBLE QUAD on a 14. You do not need to remove the brackets to get "higher level of play" scores.

I would also like to mention that every player who recently moved here from FL (there's a rather large handful of us) have played on ACME's pads and been blown away by how terrible they were. Thankfully due to recent fixes they are way better than they were a month or two ago, but the biggest issue is still that they're way oversensitive, and that can be attributed to the brackets.

Seems to me that you and your group from Florida want to take this machine in a different direction than what the majority of frequently players at ACME want. Having said that, this discussion should determine which direction this machine will go, not you and your group from Florida. It seems very likely that ACME will revert back to using brackets and becoming more recessed since there are more voices to push for this change. Since Laura and Tony are in charge of the machine, they should test both options and see which one suits our community better.

For anybody who's argument is to "get used to the pads," the same can be said to you. Build more stamina, lose more weight, move faster. It's a moot argument, so don't use that as your defense. Replacing the brackets will not turn them into bucket pads, and you are seriously overreacting if you think so. The entitlement in this thread is mind boggling.

This "get used to the pads" argument goes in circles, and shouldn't be used as a counter-point, it doesn't take this discussion further, just stunts it.

Instead, give us a good reason to replace the bracket, because to us, it is working just fine as is.

Saying that we will build more stamina, lose more weight, and move faster aren't good enough because we feel that way without the brackets.

Let us come together as a community and work together to find the best solution for this stage. Let us stop arguing over trivial matters and just get the job done. Let us take into consideration both parties requests and build a stage that suits everyone.

 
 
 4 
on: October 02, 2014, 10:15:25 AM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by KAZE
Relevance: 49.6%
Would you guys stop calling it a "higher level of play"? In my opinion technique is far more impressive than shuffling your feet at a million BPM. A quad star on Euphoria is far more impressive to me than clearing a 19 (see: there are a handful of people who can clear 19s, but absolutely zero people who can quad star Euphoria), but oh no!!!! Euphoria is only a 12. Anybody who plays that must be a scrub, right?

The pads at ACME are absolutely wonderful for using zero energy to do burst runs at whatever BPM your hearts desire. Shuffle that in with a pound of baby powder, your precious bar, and some slippery socks and you're in good shape to pass whatever "high level" charts you want.

Meanwhile, I don't give two shits about that stuff and I've been playing dance games for over 14 years. I've won close to 100 tournaments, large and small, and have given top ITG players a run for their money in multiple instances. I don't claim to be the best or even close to it. I recently moved here from the East Coast and it sucks seeing the only publicly available dedicab be modded to absolute shit for anybody who wants to actually get good scores. Have you guys tried playing pivot heavy charts on these pads? I played a Yodler in Texas on them earlier this week and racked up about 4 excellents and 4 way offs. It has absolutely nothing to do with my playstyle. The pads are way oversensitive, and them being so raised will cause them to fire if you move around the pad a lot. This isn't an issue if you're only playing 16th note streams at 240 BPM, so for you guys I'm sure they're wonderful. It's however, absolutely unfair to the rest of us who don't need to cheat our way through passing footspeed charts, and would just like a pad that works as it's intended to.

For the record, I have played on probably over 100 dedicabs all throughout the country since ITG2 released, and this is literally the first machine I have ever played on without the brackets. Right before I moved here we had a tournament in Florida called DDR Storm where plenty of top players came to compete. Our machine had the brackets. In the upper division Rynker and Paul tied with a DOUBLE QUAD on a 14. You do not need to remove the brackets to get "higher level of play" scores.

I would also like to mention that every player who recently moved here from FL (there's a rather large handful of us) have played on ACME's pads and been blown away by how terrible they were. Thankfully due to recent fixes they are way better than they were a month or two ago, but the biggest issue is still that they're way oversensitive, and that can be attributed to the brackets.

For anybody who's argument is to "get used to the pads," the same can be said to you. Build more stamina, lose more weight, move faster. It's a moot argument, so don't use that as your defense. Replacing the brackets will not turn them into bucket pads, and you are seriously overreacting if you think so. The entitlement in this thread is mind boggling.
 
 5 
on: October 02, 2014, 04:21:37 AM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by Iori241
Relevance: 44.4%
I want to make it clear that APHR and I have completely relinquished our control over the ACME machine. It isn't our responsibility anymore and it isn't up to us to make decisions on behalf of the community with regards to the stage/modding.

If the ACME community decides that they want to replace the brackets, then so be it. As it stands, there are 2 modded stages in Washington state. So if there is a demand for a non-modded stage then I believe ACME's should come to a decision as a community.

It is to my understanding this issue was resolved a while ago, but has resurfaced do to this poll, so once again we must "discuss" keeping the modding, adding the brackets, etc., but we don't want any part of this because our responsibilities now lie with Narrows.

The Narrows machine was entrusted to APHR, Bauregaurd, and I. We were given 100% control and keys to work on the machine/stage. We have modified the machine to fit the needs of those who desire to play on a modded stage. The machine at Narrows was in desperate need of TLC, hopefully to bring in more players and to help make the Narrows converted cab shine once more.

Iori241/THOT CATALOG/i'm the shit, I'm asking if you could stop bringing us into this discussion.

As I stated before, we want nothing more to do with ACME and its cabinet. If ACME's cabinets modifications are where the issues keep occurring, then leave it up to Laura and Tony to change it to fit the demand. If players demand to revert the stage back to its recessed state, then that is where it should go. If the players demand the brackets be replaced, then that is where it should go. If the players demand cardboard over tape, then that is where it should go...

Point is, it isn't our responsibility any longer and we don't want to be apart of this discussion any longer. Please settle this once and for all and move on.
i think given the grander scope of this the "home machine" comment being part of the other side's entitlement complex it strengthens my position. that's why i put it in and i think it's fair. the rest of this is irrelevant. i never "brought you in": by posting information and conversing on a public forum you open up anything you say to scrutiny. if you don't want that delete your posts?

Nice try there, Iori :/, but they actually only refer to the dress code when you're generally walking around the building, not so much if you're sticking to the ITG machine. Just thought you should know.
nice to know that building wide rules suddenly don't apply when you're in the arcade.
We need to understand, on both sides, that there are those who like to preserve the genuine feel of the old ITG, and there are those that want to move on to a higher caliber of skill.
modding and brackets are not required to move onto higher levels of skill. i've already substantiated this argument multiple times but i'll some stuff again due to your insistence. it makes it EASIER to get higher scores, sure. **that does not actually alter your skill as an individual.** if you feel that you are performing much different without powder and modded pads than with it's only proof that your skill is lacking, not proof of a bad machine. i already provided the example of calimist and others who are much better than any of you but do not use powder etc in videos. clearly you all just aren't as good as you think you are or this wouldn't be an issue.
i'm glad my other points are finally getting through though. thank you for being open to a dialog here kloc.
 
 6 
on: October 01, 2014, 10:07:13 PM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by OrangeChicken
Relevance: 41.4%
also: friendly reminder that it's clearly stated that in acme's rules that you need shirts and *shoes* on Wink

Nice try there, Iori :/, but they actually only refer to the dress code when you're generally walking around the building, not so much if you're sticking to the ITG machine. Just thought you should know.

Also, Iori has a good point about there being "two home machines" in public venues. It does seem unfair that the modders (which possibly includes me) are hogging both. At least, to a certain degree, I feel that the ACME cab is already starting to revert to the old-style of gameplay, and that the Narrows cab is advancing into the future style of gameplay.

We need to understand, on both sides, that there are those who like to preserve the genuine feel of the old ITG, and there are those that want to move on to a higher caliber of skill.

Maybe it's best that we do keep one cab available for those who hate modding and want nothing else to touch the machine. Change is going to deter them.
 
 7 
on: October 01, 2014, 01:32:52 PM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by Iori241
Relevance: 33.1%
point: don't modders have the narrows machine all to themselves? can't there be one unmolested machine? what happened to that? doesn't one modded and one unmodded machine solve everything or is every machine not being modded an issue? i mean having two "home machines" seems a little absurd Smiley

edit: let's take this a step further:
all of the recent scores from modders i've seen are taken at acme. are the lot of you that ungrateful and entitled as to needing one machine you'll never play AND the machine that everyone else would like to use? all of the recent month's shit is culminating into the ultimate entitlement: no unmodded machines, including one that is not the proposed "home machine" (acme) to aphr and abbeye  (their words, not mine). one machine wasn't enough. 2 machines aren't enough? what next?
"home machine" should constitute a machine at someone's house, not a public place that is a community machine. this is the entitlement mentality i am getting at.

In other words, the pad is GREAT; if you have a problem stop whining about it and just learn how to play modern ITG or go back to DDR.
another rich case in point. ironically i think you need to step up your game gerrak. perhaps you should go back to ddr if you can't adapt. isn't your stamina really great? i mean you're passing hard charts and all? then again... you have don't have too many quads? perhaps you could gain something from the smaller timing windows in extreme.
back to the point though: the brackets shouldn't make a difference if you are truly "end game" right?

also:
Oh. Would it hurt if I tried to play 15s on them with socks?
friendly reminder that it's clearly stated that in acme's rules that you need shirts and *shoes* on Wink
 
 8 
on: September 30, 2014, 09:33:37 PM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by Suko
Relevance: 16.5%
It sounds like this could become another "My opinion is greater than that guys opinion" thread.

I don't think we should mess with the ITG pads if they're working right. Now with DDR X3 in the house, I think most of us "stuborn people" can enjoy that instead. That said, I HATE how some are arguing that this is "progression" and that "we need to get with the times". To claim "the rest of the country" is all playing 15+ charts and nothing else is incredibly presumptuous. These are the hardcore elite that make the most presence in the forums and community. You can't expect the (probably more numerous) less hardcore players to be posting youtube videos of their average achievements. But I would doubt that that elite group makes up more than 50% of the revenue at most of those locations (speaking nationally here, not just Acme).

TLDR: I'd leave the pads as-is if they're working great. But I hate hearing people assuming that their opinion is the universal one just because the people posting about ITG on Youtube are hardcore players.
 
 9 
on: September 30, 2014, 09:24:27 PM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by OrangeChicken
Relevance: 15.8%
Gerrak's got a point, and not to disregard Nykkel, nor others like him, but it votes of people who have not tried ACME's pads recently may not have as relevant an opinion on this than those who play regularly enough to understand the feel and flaws of the machine.

Anyone could vote, honestly, and even multi-log or something like that to rig the ballots.

Don't completely go on what I say though, but just fairly consider who's votes actually count for the sake of these pads.

However, everyone, keep your votes and please explain why you feel the pad should or should not receive its former brackets.
Please, no reason that's like "because I miss the old ITG pads" or "brackets are stupid."
 
 10 
on: September 30, 2014, 04:47:50 PM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by Rose
Relevance: 12%
If you are to replace the brackets, you will have to re-mod the stage. Chris and I have modded the stage to work without the inner brackets. Without using the inner brackets, you can get a much flusher stage, but if you end up replacing them due to popular vote, then you will have to remove most of the tape and foam otherwise the panel will get stuck/miss-trigger.

Contrary to what Allan has stated, after Chris and I worked on the stage for a year and a half, it was left in *perfect* condition. Also, if the "majority" want the brackets replaced, then so be it.   

It isn't up to Chris and I anymore, so you guys do what you want. Just letting you know that you will have to redo the entire stage if you were to replace the brackets. The stage won't be as flush as well, probably comparable to the DDR stage at ACME at the moment if the brackets were to go back on. Since the "majority" appears to want the brackets replaced, that is probably the direction you should go. I'm not entire sure who the "majority" is but I can say it isn't the modern ITG community.

Having said that, we've returned the all the brackets to Bill today so I'm sure you will get your hands on them ASAP.

 
 11 
on: September 30, 2014, 03:51:08 PM  Top
Started by OrangeChicken, Message by Gerrak
Relevance: 10.5%
I thought this discussion was over... the pads have been *perfect* since you guys took over, dont change them... Seriously, if some of you guys have a problem with these pads you should make the tiny adjustment to your play to get with the rest of us in realizing the pads are absolutely phenomenal as is. Finally, please don't run this strictly democratically, since some voters barely play, or maybe not at all. I've been really nice over all this but jesus, if you can't play on these pads now then it's your own fault and your stubbornness screws up play for those of us who aren't stuck on 1999s primitive pad design pre-10s and want to do hard stuff like the rest of the country.

In other words, the pad is GREAT; if you have a problem stop whining about it and just learn how to play modern ITG or go back to DDR. Its really honestly worth the effort, because it's a much richer endgame that way. I mean really why do I have to come say all this, go play at acme and actually TRY THE PAD. I've had like 2 errors in the last 50000+ steps, the pad is just fine...

 
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