I had posted a thread about the perfect dance games body at one point.  My conclusion is that there really isn't one.  They all have advantages and disadvantages.

I totally sympathize with Suko on having to throw around 230lbs.  But the best DDR player in New England is 300lbs.  (And I'm not at all saying that Suko is making excuses.  I'm just saying that you can still be the best with a handicap like weight/height.)

Conversely, I weigh 100lbs soaking wet.  When I lean back on the bar so I can move quicker, I actually get pad greats because I'm only barely activating the sensor.  So I had to adapt to playing flat footed on fast, streaming songs, which is a huge strain on my knees and eats up a lot more energy.  But that doesn't stop me from getting 2 greats on CSFILSM. 



And I totally agree with Keby here.  My shoe size is a 5 1/2 in women's, which is a 3 1/2 in men's. (I can get light-up Spiderman velcro sneakers in my size.)  I can hit four arrows at once on ITG.  I can also do some bracket raping, although my weight is more an issue the foot size.


tl;dr Everyone on this forum has something 'wrong' with their body for dance games.  Be it height, weight, or foot size, I guarantee there is a modification that you can make to make it work for you.  And if that modification is bracket raping, using the bar, or whatever else, I don't think it can be criticized.  However you make the game work for you is part of the 'unique' journey of kicking ass at dance games.  And as long as you're having fun, who cares? 

And if you're going to whine, watch this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ok1Xc01oJ4
	Small | Large

Do you... not know how a metaphor works?

Being tall makes playing basketball (at the most basic level) easier. That was what I said. I used that as a metaphor to compare to the ridiculous assertion that having bigger feet (or the "right size" feet) is unfair.

But, to be fair, having way too big of feet is a bad thing for dancing games. Look at Bigfoot, who streams wayoffs during most runs because he rocks something like size 18 or 19 shoes.

But yeah that thing about tall people and dancing games? Kinda came out of nowhere dude.

Being tall != being better at dance games. Take, Yasu, and Kevbo aren't what many would consider tall, but they're some of the best players this genre has ever seen.

The bigger a person is, they expend an exponential amount of energy per motion. Tall, skinny players probably have the largest advantages in these games due to their relatively low height-weight ratio. Most of you know how difficult it is for me to do 10+ charts. It's not because I can't read them, it's just exhausting for me to be moving my 230 lbs body around and 300 BMP for 555 steps in 1.5 minutes.

Interesting note: I weigh 50 or 75 pounds more than most of you...could you imagine having to play with a backpack or something that weighs that much?

I do have the advantage of having larger feet, which would probably aid in "bracket raping", but I still can't play like that at all. Every time I bracket rape, I fail the song or get such a crazy low score. I can't understand why people would play like this...where's the fun at?

I kind of agree with both you to an extent. While I do find bracket raping pointless personally (I can see why people do it, it's understandable) For endurance reasons, I'd rather just push myself to the breaking point than try conserve energy on a song using a technique I really really suck at (I'm not kidding, I failed Tribal Style trying to bracket rape it)
It's not like I'm going to tell that kid he's doing it wrong, because they're not. People find all kinds of ridiculous ways to play the game.

Speaking of foot size, yeah.....if amber can bracket rape fine, I think just about anyone can.
No offense amber, we love you, but your feet are tiny, hahaha. It's not like you check this forum that much anyways lol.

yeah, this might come as a shock to you but you're actually flat-out wrong. it's a matter of technique, not necessarily one of foot size. some people can actually play entire songs without moving very much because they have enormous feet, but cheating triples and quads with your feet can be done with any shoe size, period, because you can roll your feet to do it. easily. I did it for a long time, and I have size ten and a half shoes. Phylicia can do it consistently and I'm pretty sure her shoes are smaller than mine. ESPECIALLY if you're playing on an ITG2 dedicab where the brackets are small and you won't have to roll more than half an inch.

and even if it were purely a matter of foot size, that's like saying that tall people have an unfair advantage playing basketball. in other words, a borderline retarded argument. people with natural physical advantages are (surprisingly!!) going to have advantages in physically competitive situations.

furthermore, there aren't any official charts that can't be done using your hands "without cheating," so anyone who really can't do charts with bracket raping uh, shouldn't put them on their usb.

and lastly, no, you can play the game however you want regardless of how the "developers intended it" or whatever. I'm pretty sure the bar was just there as a safety measure because Konami didn't want to get sued, and now it's an integral part of tournament-level gameplay.

   I'm not sure what 'bracket raping' all-in-all is supposed to entail, but as part of it, and to put in my 2 cents to this pointless argument, to stomp out triple and quadruple notes (which frankly are dumb in and of themselves anyway but are typically doable with hands on any ITG song) without hands is dumb and helps ruin the game for this simple reason: not everyone can do it. You HAVE to have big enough feet and the right kind of shoes to bend over the corners and hit both notes, and that kind of specificity doesn't expand upon anything, it just makes certain things unattainable for some players, and I've seen charts that are like this. DDR/ITG are games everyone can play no matter what, minus serious health conditions that would affect any form of exercise, and to expect this of a player is stupid.
    As far as just doing fast shit (or anything really) by putting your feet on the corners and moving as efficiently as possible, this indeed was an inevitability. If I was in a tournament against a notorious bracket raper I would probably just pick a heavy crossover song or very awkward hand song and beat the hell out of them. If I didn't beat them, they were probably better than me whether they bracket raped or not.

And yes many ITG and DDR players are elitist asshats. Play the game for fun and/or exercise. If not either you're an asshat. If both you're a superhero. IMO anyway

Interesting. . . . I agree with Hooby. I don't think anything can really take away from the experience of dancing games. Why? because people develop different play styles. I for one don't bracket rape because......well....I just flat out can't do it without failing miserably. Besides I just figure if I play the song normally my endurance will increase at a much much higher rate.

Bracket raping expands upon the game by allowing for more possibilities of arrow sequences to be stepped with correct timing. It was a natural progression in play style as songs became faster *cough max300 cough* and more and more people started playing aiming for perfect technical precision. IMO bracket raping is a fundamental aspect of playing the game in its purest form. If you are positioning yourself in a way that is fluid and with controlled rhythm, there will be times where it is to your advantage to hug the bracket and others where it is to your advantage to aim more for the center of the arrow to gain more leverage for controlling turns - this one of the less subtle uses for superior movement based upon positioning bracket raping offers.  It also allows for the conservation of energy when applicable meaning people can play for longer periods of time.

Bracket raping just makes sense; the only reason there are brackets there in the first place is because something had to hold the plastic in place while allowing for compression. DDR has always been a game where instead of your hands you use your feet. Seems hard to believe someone would claim pushing two buttons with one hand, or one thumb even, is ruining anything.

Fact is, bracket raping adds a lot to the game as far as possibilities and depth; while taking nothing away from it. I've never actually heard any coherent argument against bracket raping (then again I've never debated for the positives of it before either), so I'd love to hear more about how it ruins the game.

PS: Bracket raping.

They're bold because more people have clicked through from google under those search terms.

At least on my forum view, the tags DDR and Elitist are bold while ITG and Elitists are normal  ;P

Awesome

Lol

This thread is ridiculous, I love it.

I think you just hate what ITG is so much and you hate what ITG has done to dancing games so much that you'll automatically criticize anything ITG related. Your post doesn't even warrant more of a response than this because this is just another ITG bitch fest. So many of your posts are emotionally charged rants that basically boil down to you not accepting that ITG is a good game and is a good direction for  four arrow games to be headed in. Any competitive game has elitists. The best DDR players moved onto ITG so yes, there are more "Elite" ITG players. Moron.

*sigh* really?

DDR is much older, and so more content should exist.
Plus it's more popular, so will have more.

that is pretty funny

but also

ITG elitists: 7,140 hits
DDR elitists: 37,600 hits

what now

LOL, "ITG Elitists - Seattle and Portland DDR Arcade Community Forum"

Google makes our forum sound as if we're all a bunch of ITG Elitist asshats.

Bracket raping does ruin the game...



I LoLed at the one with me... the bar is way too high for me! You should donate some of your height to me. Maybe if I had tall people feet I could bracket rape too....

we are the shitz on teh internetz

hahaha, oh man.

Google search:
itg elitist
or
ddr elitist

I can understand the Mario Kart thing. I think the thing I'm best at in life is Mario Kart 64, but that'll never get me anywhere. Well, I won a tournament at a birthday party once. I probably won stickers or something.

I think it's important to differentiate between elitists, pros, and hardcores.  Elitists are cunts.  Pros are good at this game but not necessarily serious/elitists.  Hardcores take every game seriously and don't get butthurt when they aren't pro: they get better.

I consider myself a hardcore gamer and it really pisses me off to be lumped in with anything else.  I'm not pro at any game except maybe Mario Kart Double Dash, which has no comp community so being good at it means nothing.  I'm definitely not an elitist; I'm the guy who's put in 400 hours of Monster Hunter helping new hunters get into the game and learn the ropes.  I'm the guy who sees someone with great timing but bad step technique and offers them friendly tips on improving their scores between songs.  I'm also very definitely not a recreational gamer.  I play games very seriously and don't game without goals.  Whether I'm great attacking, perfect attacking, freestyling, or whatever, I'm focusing 100% on accomplishing something, not enjoying myself, so it gets really tiring when people complain that I'm using the bar on an easy 6 or tell me I should try to PA instead of GAing when I feel like PAing.  I'm not interested in showing people how good I am because I'm not good, and I'm not interested in playing easy songs unless I'm freestyling for an audience or AAAing/BBBing it.


EDIT:
As a side note, I've been an elitist before.  I've been a casual gamer before.  I hate myself for both and don't stand by anything I've said which is inconsistent with what I'm saying now.

I'm 6'7" tall, so I have to lean really far back just to reach the bar. It makes doing anything with crossovers extremely difficult (if I'm using the bar). This is why I mostly play sub 11's and generally don't use the bar on anything below a 10.

This will give you an idea of how tall I am...

http://www.pnwbemani.net/mgallery/?sa=media;id=167;preview

http://www.pnwbemani.net/mgallery/?sa=media;id=162;preview

http://www.pnwbemani.net/mgallery/?sa=media;id=145;preview <--note, the bar is lower than my ass.

I confess I don't either, but the only serious no bar performances in recent history that I can think of are... zilch. Strictly no-bar tournaments, sure, but never at a mixed event. There wouldn't happen to be videos from that SoCal tournament, would there?

Suko: Well I mean if it hinders you to use the bar then that's a different story altogether, haha. Are you too tall or too short?

I gave up my no bar elitism long ago. I still prefer to play without the bar, but that's only because I enjoy playing the game that way, and at my height the bar is not easy to use.