Why oh why is it always the canadians who ruin itg?  Those cheatin' canadians.  Gotta keep an eye out for them. 


"We clearly just need to have a tournament not on an ITG machine.

We have good PIU and DDR machines for tournaments"

Blasphemy!!!!  Burn the witch!!!

Well then... welcome!  I'm assuming you're going to have to fly in sometime before the summer to get housing and whatnot figured out - keep us posted and we'll try to throw a warm PNWBemani welcome in there!

It's official. The letter is signed and sent to my recruiter. Hello Seattle!

Don't worry about some of the "out of state hate" expressed in this thread.  We're generally super cool and welcoming to new people here.  I'm always happy to be part of the welcome wagon, just because I love to watch our small community grow, so feel free to include me in the "show xenonscreams the ropes" party.  Keep us posted about your job offer!

Sweet, getting to know people would be nice. I'll know Ben, and maybe my TA for one of my courses this semester if he goes, and that's about it. Bemani's always a good way to meet people though.

Also who needs Technika 2 when you have Dance Maniax? You KNOW how I feel about that game.

I already heard through the grapevine that you got an offer from Amazon.  Congrats!  Keep us posted, and if you end up coming out here, I'd be happy to show you around and introduce you to everyone. =)

Also, we just got a new DJ Max Technika 2 in Seattle, if that influences your decision. =p

There's actually about a 90% chance right now that I'll be working at Amazon and living in Seattle this summer . I'll know for sure by 5:00 PM PST. If so, I'll be out-of-state crashing all your events~. Not like I'm good enough for that to be significant at all, but it'd be fun and interesting I guess.

Posting this here early so I don't surprise anyone, especially Sara since it would probably be weird for her if I just randomly showed up and was like "sup, I live here."

I don't know that this is exactly accurate, and I want to make sure we don't just discourage out of state players from coming without them knowing all of the facts.  

1. Although it's true that ACME has been resistent to tournaments in the past, has anyone actually ASKED to run one there since Dance Dance Party Party in 2009? It seems as though the real issue is just running tournaments on Saturdays, which we can work around.

2. When we weren't having regular tournaments, that was because our scene only had about five "tournament quality" players. A lot of our community has gotten a lot better, and, dare I say it, even just talks of a lower division open the potential of entering a tourney up to a whole bunch of people who have never thought themselves capable of this before.

3. We will still have tournaments on private machines, those just most likely won't be open to out of state players (not because we are offended by out of state players entering our tournaments, but because having strange people you've never met before except on dance game forums come to your house can go very, very wrong.)

The more I think about it, the more I'd like to try and run more tournaments that do include out of state players.  Back in the Team Seattle days, huge carloads of people from Oregon and sometimes BC would show up to enter our tournaments, and I-Gene and Crystal would come from Bay Area, and after Robby moved out of state he'd come back from Utah/Idaho; these "out of state players" are actually some of my best friends to this day and we always took the fact that they wanted to compete with us as a compliment; we were worth competing with!

In the past I have been upset by out of state players winning our tournaments, but this is not because they were from out of state.  It is because the circumstances surrounding these cases have always been fuzzy, such as:

-Kevbo winning not only our tournament but also a raffle with 300+ dollars worth of prizes because the rules of the tournament and raffle, quite frankly, were designed with Kevbo in mind

-A bunch of Canadian players coming out of nowhere and entering the Sakuracon 2010 tournament without most of them having read the rules (I had to interrupt several times to tell them they couldn't do certain things,) sandbagging the shit out of the qualifier and attempting to sandbag matches as well, and generally trolling our players.  I actually took some time to get to know said Canadians, and I like them a lot now, but make no mistake - the WAY they entered our tournament was pretty lame.

We clearly just need to have a tournament not on an ITG machine.

We have good PIU and DDR machines for tournaments.

We don't really have tournaments anymore - since our only public machine is maintained by wonderful operators, but located in a bowling alley that thinks arcades are a necessary evil of bowling alleys.  If something is happening, that would be fortunate, but we've been averaging 1 ITG tournament per year for the last 4 years or something like that, and that's not too likely to change unless we get significant turnout for the next one.

I didn't hear back from my friend in time to plan for spring break, so I probably won't make it out to the Seattle area until the summer. However, if you have anything going on then I wouldn't mind having some out-of-state tournament awesomeness occur.

What are the facts you're alluding to that still stand then? What are you trying to get done?  

"obviously you're making baseless assumptions" if you check groovestats most of them made their most recent updates in 2010/2011.

Sounds like you're making some baseless assumptions (aside from the crying and trolling) about our community because were having a 2 division tournament :-) what is it you're exactly accomplishing by being such a negative Nancy? You don't see us doing such things in your Portland threads.

Your next baseless assumption is that we dont have competitive players when clearly, we obviously have them.   but even if you were right: you're saying we don't have players in our area who are competitive enough to call us out on "how ridiculous and stupid" a 2 division tournament is, so then why are you (who admits you're a shit player) calling us out on it? Let alone using that reasoning with competitive players?

The thing is you're not clearly addressing what Laura and I are stating. If at all. Please do

Obviously I am preoccupied, first post in like a year. Besides, being AFK on my PC /=/ being preoccupied trolling this forum.  You can beat around the bush all you like, but facts still stand.
If you read my previous post I actually admit fully I'm a shit player by today's standards. No qualms there, you are obviously making baseless assumptions. Also... Groovestats doesn't matter anymore. Lots of the top players haven't updated profiles since 2009. All that matters is customs on that site at this point since the game has essentially been quad starred. And of course I will come in, it's an open discussion.

Nice quote there. I like it.

It's more what it says about us as human beings that I'm proud of.  Any "good player" can be a competitive douchenozzle - it's not challenging in the slightest, and it doesn't make you cool, it just makes you a shitty person.  Being good at the game and being a good sport who wants to include as many players as possible in a community and its tournaments, on the other hand, is impressive as hell - talent and character are an increasingly rare combination these days.
 
You're going to say that this sounds like it's coming straight from the My Little Pony Dream House, but that's just because you're jealous that no matter how much skill you have or have the potential to acquire at ITG, your shitty character is why you will never have enough social obligations to keep you too occupied to troll these forums.   

Are you done trolling iori241? No one here cares for your banter. At the end of the day, were having a 2 division tournament and that won't change.  

Who said none of such players exist here? If you've been here lately, we have plenty of solid, competitive, and growing players here in the region who would argue and demonstrate otherwise (one of them you may notice is #20 on groovestats among the deal of other veteran talent we have here). I couldn't speak for Portland or Idaho as I haven't been there for 5 years. It's one thing if people in our community disagree on things. It's another thing if someone who doesn't even live around here comes in and fusses around like a drama queen. As a community if we wanted to play in pink shorts we could, the fact is it's up to our community. What are you trying to get done? Say were inferior? If that's the case, please join us at the tournament and school us.   if you're not coming, then why are you part of this discussion?  

You say were being babied, but here you are coming in and crying about a Seattle tournament from Portland...."just saying".  

Actually yes! By chance you don't have players who are competitive enough to call you guys out on how ridiculous and stupid this is to have 2 divisions within such a small community for a dying / dead game. Since no one here can read into the underlying deterministic pattern as to why none of these players live in this region, for all intents and purposes within reason we can call this luck. I am fully aware there is no such thing as "luck", anywhere or anytime, but the word is often used to describe patterns or happening in life we do not understand.
Funny how proud this statement is considering what it says about you as players. Just saying.

Yes, it just so happened BY CHANCE that we actively planned and organized a tournament with two divisions!  Words mean things.

gerrak jw but are you an only child
oh yeah, and have you ever played a competitive zero sum game before (ddr/itg dont count, no player interaction) if not then please dont or you will kill yourself
oh yeah, and cg on ban welcome to the club

 oh yeah. you guys are lucky to have a "standard" division in the first place lol, that's enough babying

*reads thread*
*considers making a very 'east coast' post in response*
*decides against it*

I will however simply state that competing in one tournament with a particular ruleset against each other determines NOTHING aside from bragging rights.  You all know each other and the local pecking order of players is common knowledge.  One tourney matching you all up with a unique ruleset in a 2/3 format won't change who the better players are.  I'm 3-0 against Little Matt in tourneys.  Does that make me the best player in the world?  Of course not.

OOS players like to compete at things too.  I really doubt Alan or anyone else would refrain from entering a tourney due to having a 90%+ chance of placing/winning.  Playing against complete strangers on strange machines is just another way of getting better at the game and getting over tourney nerves.  Oh, and it's kinda fun too.  I don't speak for every player that has travelled to tourneys, but to say that we all don't give a fuck about anyone else and just want to take your money is just fucking stupid and makes one sound scared of unknown players youve convinced yourself you can't beat.


Sigh, this is turning longer than I intended.  I'm like 25% on showing up to this thing, even considering the majority agree with what I'm saying.  I like this community and everyone I've met, from Alan to Tom to Laura, has been pretty enjoyable to hang out with.  Reguardless of anything dancing game related, I hope it stays that way.

Gerrak you have a 1 week ban from the forums effective immediately.

Reasons:

• Repeatedly harassing and insulting members of the community on the forum
• Harassing and insulting Tournament organizers
• Repeatedly disrupting the efforts of the community to host an event in a negative and non-community building way

These forums aren't here for you to keep yelling and trying to get your way. If you want to do that, do it elsewhere.

I agree with the point of concern about players in a different league ruining the tournament. There's no point for them to compete with us, there's no fun in us competing with them.
I don't want players that belong in the expert division with me in the standard division.
I also don't want players that belong in the super expert division in the expert division, as it could ruin their fun and ruin our bracket by pushing people down into it.
I don't agree with all the anger and insults.
I dislike that a very valid and sound argument has gotten corrupted by such things.

KDDR you're retarded. I just want ONE tournament that isnt ruined by out of state players. Not all the tournaments, we got another one coming up a month after this that IS all-inclusive. You're fucking retarded if a) you think these guys give a flying fuck about the well-being of our community and b) you think that YET ANOTHER tournament where bullshit players entering and stomping all over us wouldn't leave our entire community pissed off at the end of the tournament like the last two have. I have precedent and reasoning here, we NEVER have god damn tournaments for just us, they always get crashed and they always blow ass.
Thats why major league teams compete in minor leagues. Or high school kids in little league, or MMA champions entering a small-town martial arts tournament They don't and aren't allowed because that's inappropriate and self-serving to them, not good for the community. The players in our community right now aren't first tier players like these guys, we haven't had the time to train up because we haven't played competitive ITG for like 8 years and have 100+ quads like these guys, and yeah for a little while there losing to awesome players (from THIS area) was a huge motivator, but CONSTANTLY being unable to have a fair tournament and being shown that no matter how good I get, I'll NEVER be that good doesnt help motivation, it utterly kills it. It's absolutely inappropriate for these guys to be in our tournament. Ive talked to Amber and she said a huge reason she quit was exactly this: nothing she did ever impressed her or motivated her anymore because she'd seen people who could walk all over her no matter how hard she trained or how hard she tried. Some of us might one day be to the caliber of these players, but our community has lost nearly all of its old veterans and we are what's left and we need time to recover and just play with each other to get to that level, not get constantly stomped all over by Kevbo, Canada, Flash, who the fuck ever. Fuck those guys. Except Kevbo he's kinda cool in person but he's got no business in our tournaments still (not that he was going to crash this particular one).

And
I'LL BET MONEY IF YOU TOLD ACME THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE NOTORIOUS FOR RUINING OUR TOURNAMENTS THEY WOULD LET US DISALLOW THEM And I would take the initiative to ask them about it. Grab your nuts and man the fuck up you pussy, quit sucking the dicks of these guys whenever they come and ruin our shit. They don't give a FUCK about us, they just want us to jerk them off for being so good, have them an ego-gasm for beating all our local players, and go back home never to be heard of until we all throw money at them next time. Well FUCK that. MOST people here don't particularly want to get stomped all over by people they've never seen. Certainly no one I've talked to in person. But yet no one is willing to do anything about it, just bend over and take it.

I won't put down $25 to be stolen by guys who I've never seen before. Fuck that. Kevin, you have clearly lost sight of what we originally designed the dynamic of the tournament to be. Don't you remember you adopted the ruleset from OUR LOCAL DISCUSSION? The 6man Expert Bracket was designed with basically specific people from THIS area in mind. If 2-3 more people show up, it bumps our best down into the standard bracket which ruins anyone else's chances there of winning that too and effectively ruins our whole design!

Or maybe I'll just enter the standard bracket. $10 is reasonable, and I probably have a 90% chance of winning it if none of the other expert guys sandbag down there too, we'll see how well any of you in support of these fucking assholes like playing Dream to Nightmare or Bloodrush, because I'll pick the worst charts allowed. It's sure to be as fun for you as it was for me getting raped by KevBo in the last tournament at Acme and as fun as it would be to get crushed by Flash in this one.

In any case, Kevin, the last tournaments you have run have caused me to believe that you are a terrible spineless tournament organizer. I will absolutely discourage anyone I previously told "could do really well! You should come!" from coming on the basis of they no longer have a chance anymore. I've encouraged well over a dozen players in this manner because, frankly, they DID have a shot at doing well. But not anymore. I'll also tell these self-serving egomaniacs to their faces if they show up that they have no business being here, and talk to the guys I play with in the Expert division about walking out on the tournament or dropping down to standard if these guys show up and insist on ruining this shit again. And if these guys do show up, I will myself run an local only tournament since you clearly don't have the resolve to enforce rules to ensure a good fair tournament for the people in the PNW.

Bunch of ignorant forgetful carebears here I swear to God... Just bend over and take it in the ass from these guys like you always have. Well they aren't so accommodating to us; let them take our money, fuck up our tournament AGAIN and leave never to play here again until it serves their wallets and egos and after it's all said and done you'll see I was indeed right this whole time. But you'd never admit it or do anything about it even when the evidence and precedent are right before your god damn eyes.

When you start excluding good out-of-state players from tournaments, it tends to result in the overall level of the community decreasing. If there's no motivation to get better, no one will get better. If someone from out of state has put in enough effort to become better at the game than any of us, then it's completely reasonable for them to come to our tournaments and beat us. I'm frankly disappointed that anyone feels that losing to a better player makes a tournament "unfair". That doesn't even make sense; it's unfair to not allow anyone to enter. How would allowing good players to enter make a tournament unfair?


In a fair tournament it's quite possible that you can predict the winner before the tournament starts. Additionally, I've never indicated that the tournament is supposed to be a "showdown between the top in this area". It's meant to be a dancing game tournament. If anyone wants to come to the area to enter the tournament, more power to them. I personally enjoy playing against people who I couldn't just meet on a Friday night at Acme, and I'm sure others do too. I'll probably lower the entry fee by a little, but not too much to the point where there is no reasonable prize in the expert division.

I feel like this is the best post in the entire thread:


Anyway, I've decided that I'm going to go ahead and allow anyone who wants to enter to enter. I hope that the messages I've received aren't representative of the community as a whole, and that other people will still want to enter. Dancing games are quite significantly about personal improvement, not limiting the group of players you play with so you can win. Neko isn't an out of state player, and I've heard nothing firm about anyone else coming anyway so I don't know why there's so much argument about this. If someone really wants to run a "regional only" "invitational" tournament then go ahead. Or don't because Acme will not allow someone to host an event excluding out-of-state residents. Maybe just play matches on a Friday night at Acme. I don't know. In summary: