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ChilliumBromide
May 23, 2009, 01:03:21 AM - ORIGINAL POST -

Please RSVP!
EDIT: If you don't want to/can't make an account and RSVP on Beatspace, feel free to send me a PM or email me: thatlatu@gmail.com


Those registering after 12:30pm 07/11/09 will be charged an additional $5 to enter.

WHERE: Ground Kontrol Classic Arcade [ groundkontrol.com ] PORTLAND, OR
 Feel free to pay ahead of time if you think you might have trouble showing up on time)
COOL STUFF: 25 cents off drinks, free water, machine on free play for tournament, Tofu buys doughnuts (seriously, I'm going to take $17 out of the bank and set it on top of my TV, and it's going to sit there waiting to pay for two voodoo dozens)
PRIZES: (pot calculated after fees to GK)
1st - 40%
2nd - 30%
3rd - 20%
4th - 10% + $5 Ground Kontrol gift card*
5th - $5 Ground Kontrol gift card*

3 rounds 11-16 players, 4 rounds 7-10 players, round robin 6 or less players.

*gift cards will only be given if at least 8 people sign up

THIS TOURNAMENT IS MARV ATTACK.  Scoring will be calculated as follows:
Marv: 4
Perf: 3
Great: 1
Good: -1
Boo: -1
Miss: 0
OK: 0
So it's better to miss in this tournament than it is to get goods/boos, and greats are pretty worthless too.  The focus here is to be ON BEAT!  I recommend you turn off freezes, since they won't count towards score at all.

REDRAWS
-If the total difficulty of all four songs adds up to 34 or higher, or a song rated 10 feet comes up, either player may call for an S-Mulligan.  We'll check the difficulties on Standard, and if everything is at least a 4, the set will be played on standard.
-If two songs in the set have a difference in tempo greater than 50% of the faster one (ie one song is more than twice as fast as another), either player may call for an X-Mulligan.
-Each player gets one free F-Mulligan during the tournament to use when something like The Reflex comes up.
-If the speakers blow mid-song, either player can call an SFX-Mulligan and do all of the above. :O
(S, F, and X mulligans will be tracked and recorded to help improve my rulesets in the future)




***FRANCE FRANCE REVOLUTIÓN CHALLENGE!***
Anyone who can beat me at Great Attack on MOBO*MOGA while either sporting an devious finger-mustache or having a real mustache as deviously french as mine gets to be the most French DDR player in Portland and can have my Cock and Balls to eat. (it's a doughnut from Voodoo)  You don't have to be in the tournament to take this challenge!


Scoring Algorithm (values carry each round):
Overall score:
Qualifier score + gains

gains:
If your total score is lower than your oppenent's and you WIN:
+1.0 points if your score is <1.1 lower
+x points if difference is between 1.0 and 2.0
+2.0 points if your score is >1.9 lower

If you total score is greater than your opponent's and you WIN:
+0.5 points.

Each player earns 0.8 points in the case of a tie.

Additional (these STACK):
+0.1 points for AA
+0.1 points for <40 greats
+0.1 points for <10 greats
+0.2 points for 0 greats
+0.1 points for <20% perfects
+0.1 points for <10% perfects
+0.1 points for <5% perfects
+0.1 points for <2% perfects
+0.2 points for 0 perfects
+0.1 points for FC per song + set (up to +0.5 total)
+0.1 for 8
+0.2 for 9
+0.4 for 10
Total possible:
+2.8 (AAAA all 10's)

« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 04:47:37 PM by BLueSS »
 
BBH
Read July 11, 2009, 02:44:44 AM #51

oh shit tomorrow/today is Free Slurpee Day too, yeaaaaa
 
ChilliumBromide
Read July 11, 2009, 06:20:24 PM #52

1st : Foti
2nd : Ethan
3rd : Wes
4th : Sean
5th : Derek

Alright, so, first of all, thanks to everyone who showed up!  It was a lot of fun and I enjoyed seeing you all and getting a chance to hang out.  The machine certainly wasn't in perfect working order, but it held through and certainly didn't ruin the tournament in my opinion.  A few notes:

Ethan, thanks for calculating scores, taking names, and helping out in general.

Aaron and Max, thanks for participating and being good sports.  I hope that you felt like you learned some valuable techniques or perhaps found some inspiration and will both continue to hone your skills and come to future gatherings and tournaments.

Derek, thanks for bringing in Pop'n Music and adding a little extra fun to the event.

Foti, I did not catch your friend's name, but please give him my thanks to helping out by taking note of which songs were being played and what songs were FC'd.

Ultimately, 8 people showed up to compete and about that many came as spectators.  The attendance wasn't ground-breaking, but perhaps that number will continue to grow and future dance game tournaments in Portland will be well-enjoyed.
 
Lavos
Read July 11, 2009, 06:59:50 PM #53

It was a lot of fun! I'll definitely try to attend future events.

I also think coming to a tournament has motivated me to get out and play in the arcade more often. Almost all of my experience is on the console versions, and I don't think that's really helping my game anymore. I wasn't really expecting to do very well in the first place, but at least I have a good reason to try to improve now. =)

Thanks for organizing the event!
 
marx!
Read July 11, 2009, 11:50:32 PM #54

Sorry I wasn't able to show up.  I really wanted to go but just two days ago I got a really bad flu/cough and coughs kill my DDR performance.  I was uber-bummed, hopefully I'll be able to show up next time. :\
 
ChilliumBromide
Read July 12, 2009, 12:20:21 AM #55

That's pretty understandable.  DDR + illness = bad idea.  I hope you're feeling better/have a speedy recovery.

The next tournament I'll be running will probably be Dance Dance Overcast at Kumoricon on Labor Day weekend.  I might potentially run one in early August/very late July, but that's not looking too likely at this point.  However, I think I might start scheduling for some casual get-togethers again since I'm going to be fairly free for the next 6 weeks or so.
 
Iori241
Read July 12, 2009, 04:02:38 AM #56

Tournament seemed to be well organized and smooth running. A few things though:
1) Quals are weighted too heavily.
2) Quals should be announced 2 days in advance so *everyone* gets a chance to practice them.
3) DDR Magic scoring should be used.
4) Make sure to adjust the AA rule you made, because if you turn freezes off you miss out on valuable points Wink
There are a few other comments I have but I'll reserve those for now because I need to sleep.
Other than that you had a great turnout/etc.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 04:08:28 AM by Iori241 »
 
ChilliumBromide
Read July 12, 2009, 07:07:19 PM #57

Yeah, it did seem that the qualifier scores were a bit too heavy.  If/when I run another swiss tournament, I think I'd instate a rubber band effect which would close the gaps a lot quicker and prevent the scenario where there's a 3 point gap between 3rd and 4th, and again between 4th and 5th, and 2 between 5th and 6th, et cetera.

Part of the issue; a large part of it, in fact; was trying to find a way to make swiss format feasible with nonstop.  In a normal swiss format, I would have just used win-loss-tie, where every match is 3 songs (not just a race to 2).  Using nonstop makes Swiss a difficult format to adapt to.  If I run a nonstop tournament in the future, which I would certainly like to do, it will probably be double elimination.

I'm not really sure I agree with you regarding announcing quals 2 days before.  Some people I have talked to have insisted that I don't announce the qualifier until the day of, while others feel it's fine to announce it 2 weeks in advance.  It's a difficult subject to really reach a conclusion for.  If it hadn't been pertinent to my scoring algorithm, I would not have used a qualifier for this, because the first round in Swiss format typically serves as a qualifier anyway.

EDIT: How does DDR Magic work with Marvs?  Could you either PM me the algorithm or a link where it is shown?  The -1 for goods and boos seemed kind of pointless, so I doubt I'll use that again, but 4/3/1/0/0/0/0 seems pretty balanced to me.

I did notice the AA problem as we started the tournament, and unfortunately I forgot my calculator, otherwise I would have been able to just reset some values in my score calculator program and I would have just calculated the score percentage assuming no freezes.  Fortunately, there were only two occasions in the tournament where I actually had to use the calculator to determine whether scores would be AA's, so it wound up turning out fine.

I noticed that there weren't a ton of mulligans during the tournament.  Did people feel that the terms were too restrictive, or were they just satisfied with the songs that came up?

« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 07:11:52 PM by DancingTofu »
 
Iori241
Read July 12, 2009, 08:01:10 PM #58

Yeah, it did seem that the qualifier scores were a bit too heavy.  If/when I run another swiss tournament, I think I'd instate a rubber band effect which would close the gaps a lot quicker and prevent the scenario where there's a 3 point gap between 3rd and 4th, and again between 4th and 5th, and 2 between 5th and 6th, et cetera.

Part of the issue; a large part of it, in fact; was trying to find a way to make swiss format feasible with nonstop.  In a normal swiss format, I would have just used win-loss-tie, where every match is 3 songs (not just a race to 2).  Using nonstop makes Swiss a difficult format to adapt to.  If I run a nonstop tournament in the future, which I would certainly like to do, it will probably be double elimination.

I'm not really sure I agree with you regarding announcing quals 2 days before.  Some people I have talked to have insisted that I don't announce the qualifier until the day of, while others feel it's fine to announce it 2 weeks in advance.  It's a difficult subject to really reach a conclusion for.  If it hadn't been pertinent to my scoring algorithm, I would not have used a qualifier for this, because the first round in Swiss format typically serves as a qualifier anyway.

EDIT: How does DDR Magic work with Marvs?  Could you either PM me the algorithm or a link where it is shown?  The -1 for goods and boos seemed kind of pointless, so I doubt I'll use that again, but 4/3/1/0/0/0/0 seems pretty balanced to me.

I did notice the AA problem as we started the tournament, and unfortunately I forgot my calculator, otherwise I would have been able to just reset some values in my score calculator program and I would have just calculated the score percentage assuming no freezes.  Fortunately, there were only two occasions in the tournament where I actually had to use the calculator to determine whether scores would be AA's, so it wound up turning out fine.

I noticed that there weren't a ton of mulligans during the tournament.  Did people feel that the terms were too restrictive, or were they just satisfied with the songs that came up?
Yeah, Foti won because he seeded higher. Wes lost to Ethan even though he beat him during the tourney in his sets. In other tourney games seeding bad doesn't necessarily fuck you over in the tourney, it just makes you play against a more difficulty opponent earlier on.

The thing is Marvs are about half the size of perfects. It takes extreme skill to MA because you have to step early within the window you're stepping to get a marv due to the hardware delay. 1/10 marvs are perfs in EX due to delay, so if someone knows how to step correctly within a window early they should be rewarded for it.

The quals thing has to do with you entering the tourney. Normally the tourney organizer cannot enter their own tourney. You basically hd all the time in the world to practice the qual. Whether you did that or not I don't know, but the point stands that if the organizer is entering quals should be known. Classic tourneys always announced quals.

DDR Magic had marv to perf like 7/3.

Everything is so offsync that it's really hard to choose which courses to strike or not. Getting a fast song early and a slow song that's late is the worst thing and that came up with that set with burning momo.

IMO next tourney should be run on ITG 2 so syncing isn't so stupid.
 
ChilliumBromide
Read July 12, 2009, 10:01:50 PM #59

Yeah, I see where you're coming from.  I'm not sure Foti necessarily won because of seeding, but I think that it shut Derek and I out from the top 4 positions.  Foti, Ethan, Sean, and Wes all seeded within 1 point of each other, so I think it was more of a lack of rubber band effect that held Wes back.

I'm not sure about how accurate the 1/10 figure is, but I do agree that Marv timing is an extreme skill, which is what I like about it.  I don't think that the gap between Marvs and Perfects should be as huge as a 7:3 ratio, but perhaps a 7/4/2 ratio would be a little more balanced and still put the appropriate emphasis on MA.  Granted, it's really a matter of opinion as far as how much emphasis should be put on MA, and I think that perhaps I differ from you in that I think that perfects should still be worth enough to make a difference, and that greats shouldn't be completely ignored.  Anyway, I do want to continue exploring different algorithms until I find one that feels just right.

I see.  I didn't plan on entering the tournament except to make the numbers even, and I stated beforehand that I didn't intend to take any prize I might win.  As for practicing the qualifier, I hope it was clear from my terrible score that I didn't do so.  The last time I played 4 seasons was over two years ago, so I don't think it really gave me an advantage at all.  I can definitely see the controversy there though, and I will keep that in mind.

Random Caprice can be weird like that.  That's why I had the X-mulligan option.  There were quite a few courses where people simply opted not to use it.  The only time it was used was when 20, November and Across the Nightmare came up in the same set.  I considered it with my second match against Derek, but ultimately I wanted to see how well I could do on Max 300. (I did terribly on it, and basically just gave up after losing track of my pad-misses on Afronova)

ITG2 is looking pretty feasible at this point.  If you think that Tilt! would be a good location for a tournament, could you possibly hook me up with some contacts there with whom I could work with to organize it?

« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 10:03:48 PM by DancingTofu »
 
Iori241
Read July 12, 2009, 11:11:15 PM #60

Yeah, I see where you're coming from.  I'm not sure Foti necessarily won because of seeding, but I think that it shut Derek and I out from the top 4 positions.  Foti, Ethan, Sean, and Wes all seeded within 1 point of each other, so I think it was more of a lack of rubber band effect that held Wes back.

I'm not sure about how accurate the 1/10 figure is, but I do agree that Marv timing is an extreme skill, which is what I like about it.  I don't think that the gap between Marvs and Perfects should be as huge as a 7:3 ratio, but perhaps a 7/4/2 ratio would be a little more balanced and still put the appropriate emphasis on MA.  Granted, it's really a matter of opinion as far as how much emphasis should be put on MA, and I think that perhaps I differ from you in that I think that perfects should still be worth enough to make a difference, and that greats shouldn't be completely ignored.  Anyway, I do want to continue exploring different algorithms until I find one that feels just right.

I see.  I didn't plan on entering the tournament except to make the numbers even, and I stated beforehand that I didn't intend to take any prize I might win.  As for practicing the qualifier, I hope it was clear from my terrible score that I didn't do so.  The last time I played 4 seasons was over two years ago, so I don't think it really gave me an advantage at all.  I can definitely see the controversy there though, and I will keep that in mind.

Random Caprice can be weird like that.  That's why I had the X-mulligan option.  There were quite a few courses where people simply opted not to use it.  The only time it was used was when 20, November and Across the Nightmare came up in the same set.  I considered it with my second match against Derek, but ultimately I wanted to see how well I could do on Max 300. (I did terribly on it, and basically just gave up after losing track of my pad-misses on Afronova)

ITG2 is looking pretty feasible at this point.  If you think that Tilt! would be a good location for a tournament, could you possibly hook me up with some contacts there with whom I could work with to organize it?
1/10 is because the hardware delay is variable from somewhere around 15 to 20 ms, where the marv window is 16.7ms. I think it was Taren from AIJ tested this theory and came up with 1/10 marvs on average being a perfect due to hardware delay. common sense would tell you that in order to be safe you would have to step earlier than late if you want to land within the hardware delay's limits and get a marv, so that is the basis for my argument. ITG games deliberately have a bigger marv window to compensate for any variation of machine lag, therefore have their FA window set at above 20.
 
With tilt I would recommend you approaching them personally in a professional manner.
 
Foti
Read July 12, 2009, 11:53:58 PM #61

I think double elim would have been a good format for a nonstop tourney. It was a pretty fun day playing DDR with old friends. Hopefully we can arrange something again soon.
 
Iori241
Read July 13, 2009, 01:23:20 AM #62

i think the main issue with double elim is that we won't have enough time before GK kicks out minors :<
 
Foti
Read July 13, 2009, 03:39:25 AM #63

double elim with 8 people is 15 rounds. The swiss we did with 4 matches each was 16 rounds, and that took us about 3.5 hours (1:00-4:30pm) I think it's easily done in that time frame.

Also, it would have been cheaper to just pay for our own rounds rather than the $5 per hour to have it on freeplay. Even including mulligans and screw ups it's much cheaper. (plus then you could allow people more mulligans but they have to pay each time they do it haha)
 
ChilliumBromide
Read July 13, 2009, 04:02:17 AM #64

The next Nonstop tournament I run will definitely be double elimination.  Swiss just doesn't seem like the right format for nonstop.  I would like to use Swiss format again though.  It's a nice way to have a tournament where the style is like round-robin but not quite as exhaustive.

I prefer paying by the hour because it's more upfront; it shows the arcade how much money they're earning off of us as a clear figure.  The tournament should have only lasted 2 hours and 30 minutes, including qualifiers, but there was a lot of dilly-dallying and I forgot my calculator which slowed things down a lot.  Ultimately, it actually would have cost $22 including the mulligans if we had paid per game, and warmups wouldn't have been free, so that would have been another $8 or so.  Everybody paid for five rounds, and got at least five rounds (25% of the pot went to GK, aka $2.50 per person).

Having the machine on event mode also makes the tournament run more quickly because people aren't taking the time to put coins into the slot.  Ultimately, it's very much worth it to pay by the hour instead of per game, especially with a format like Swiss.
 
Iori241
Read July 13, 2009, 10:20:54 PM #65

pads are dead again, UA Rside is tweaking like crackfiend. LA and UA Lside is having issues with dolling out random misses.
 
Happy Redneck
Read July 14, 2009, 02:26:13 AM #66

y u li
 
Iori241
Read July 14, 2009, 02:36:40 PM #67

y u li
no li, kyrandian and I were just there to blow the winning on a coupla games, and ddr was unplayable
 
Schlagwerk
Read July 14, 2009, 04:19:31 PM #68

no li, kyrandian and I were just there to blow the winning on a coupla games, and ddr was unplayable
Heck, 2P's up arrow was unusable by the evening after the tourney.  BBH went to play a credit that someone left on the machine and ended up walking off mid-song because of it
 
Happy Redneck
Read July 14, 2009, 07:27:32 PM #69

no li, kyrandian and I were just there to blow the winning on a coupla games, and ddr was unplayable
oic. nigga flakes
 
Iori241
Read July 14, 2009, 09:24:20 PM #70

best pads ever
 
ChilliumBromide
Read July 15, 2009, 12:13:23 AM #71

Sounds like they need new sensors at this point.
 
Iori241
Read July 15, 2009, 01:29:45 AM #72

Sounds like they need new sensors at this point.
Would be nice, prbly won't happen for a while :/
 
Limewirelord
Read July 21, 2009, 01:38:12 AM #73

I'd be very interested in a tournament at Tilt.  I still haven't been able to go to GK though, and from the looks of it, the DDR machine doesn't seem to be doing well at all.
 
 
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